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Well, we should remember that Mozilla is essentially funded by Google. [1] I think they are trying to remedy that a little bit by selling VPNs, but that's proba

Well, we should remember that Mozilla is essentially funded by Google. [1] I think they are trying to remedy that a little bit by selling VPNs, but that's probably not gonna work. Brave is probably a better option if you want to "drop out". Unlike Firefox, it is not a dying browser, and it's monthly active users are increasing: https://brave.com/36m-mau/ https://brave.com/36m-mau/. They do have a cryptocurrency for relatively privacy-respecting ads thing (Brave Rewards), but you can easily opt out of that. (Also, we should not be puritans about this, developers have to eat too) It is still based on Chromium. But that's probably more of a plus for the typical user who cares more about websites working correctly than browser diversity. [1]: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/041315/how-m https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/041315/how-m...

vord1080 5y ago
The compat story for Brave and Firefox is about the same. Tracking protections in Brave broke sites more often than Firefox when I used it for a few months, and there was a recent incident where iCloud was being blocked in Brave. And despite what a lot of people say, engine interop is only getting better thanks to initiatives like Compat2021. More sites work well under Gecko than ever before. Anyone remember IE6 era where Firefox needed bug-for-bug compatibility? It's been worse folks.
leppr 5y ago
Your only criticism of Firefox is that they get money from selling the default search engine spot to Google, but then your alternative recommendation is a browser that's fundamentally dependent on Google? The day Google stops open-sourcing Chromium or start delaying public releases, or when another privacy-busting oopsie slips in the open-source codebase and Brave devs miss it, Brave is done. They don't have the manpower or experience to develop an actual browser. The day Google stops buying Firefox's ad space, Mozilla has hundreds of alternative options for generating revenue.
- finite_jest 5y ago
  That is not my only criticism, but it was the most relevant one. Also, the issue is not that they get money from Google, it is that it is almost all of their revenue. I think Brave has a fair chance of surviving without Google, though your point of their lack of manpower stands. I don't think Firefox will have many good options for generating revenue, given that they have lost 46 million users since 2018 [1] (while paying something like $2M to the chair [2]). And the only effort they made in that direction was is to become a VPN reseller [3]. [1]: https://www.techspot.com/news/90692-firefox-loses-46-million-users-three-years.html https://www.techspot.com/news/90692-firefox-loses-46-million... [2]: https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html [3]: https://mullvad.net/en/help/partnerships-and-resellers/ https://mullvad.net/en/help/partnerships-and-resellers/
  - vord1080 5y ago
    Lost marketshare is the silliest criticism of them all I think. What to change that? Use it and tell your friends, that simple. It's like a meta-criticism, same as CEO salary. The quality of the product has only increased. Just in the last version they started rolling out Fission and added form filling for PDFs.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      Lost marketshare isn't a criticism. It's an indication that every minute of the day, more current firefox are annoyed and leave than non-firefox users are attracted to install. CEO pay also isn't a criticism of the browser, its an indication that the organization either rewards failure, or sees its current situation as success. Either way, it doesn't bode well for the future.
      - vord1080 5y ago
        Lost marketshare is an observation. We can speculate all day. Did Firefox lose marketshare because of: Google intentionally making their sites worse in Firefox? The lack of multiprocess for so long? No support for Google Earth until 2020? Google shipping a polyfill that made YouTube.com 3x slower in Firefox and Safari for years? The move to WebExtensions happening too late, resulting in burnout and lost interest from the extension community because they had already ported their extensions to e10s? Slack going out of their way to use a non-standard SDP format thats only supported in Chrome, resulting in no other browsing supporting video calls? Microsoft Teams also does the same thing. Mobile overtaking desktop, where Chrome reigns supreme as a platform default?
- pessimizer 5y ago
  > The day Google stops buying Firefox's ad space, Mozilla has hundreds of alternative options for generating revenue. Then it's really bizarre that they leave all of this money on the table, seeing as the money they get from google only requires setting a single variable. Maybe it's not actually true.
  - ZiiS 5y ago
    Google pay the most, but the are alternatives if that falls through, nothing being left on the table.

vord1080 5y ago

The compat story for Brave and Firefox is about the same. Tracking protections in Brave broke sites more often than Firefox when I used it for a few months, and there was a recent incident where iCloud was being blocked in Brave. And despite what a lot of people say, engine interop is only getting better thanks to initiatives like Compat2021. More sites work well under Gecko than ever before. Anyone remember IE6 era where Firefox needed bug-for-bug compatibility? It's been worse folks.

leppr 5y ago

Your only criticism of Firefox is that they get money from selling the default search engine spot to Google, but then your alternative recommendation is a browser that's fundamentally dependent on Google? The day Google stops open-sourcing Chromium or start delaying public releases, or when another privacy-busting oopsie slips in the open-source codebase and Brave devs miss it, Brave is done. They don't have the manpower or experience to develop an actual browser. The day Google stops buying Firefox's ad space, Mozilla has hundreds of alternative options for generating revenue.

finite_jest 5y ago
That is not my only criticism, but it was the most relevant one. Also, the issue is not that they get money from Google, it is that it is almost all of their revenue. I think Brave has a fair chance of surviving without Google, though your point of their lack of manpower stands. I don't think Firefox will have many good options for generating revenue, given that they have lost 46 million users since 2018 [1] (while paying something like $2M to the chair [2]). And the only effort they made in that direction was is to become a VPN reseller [3]. [1]: https://www.techspot.com/news/90692-firefox-loses-46-million-users-three-years.html https://www.techspot.com/news/90692-firefox-loses-46-million... [2]: https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html [3]: https://mullvad.net/en/help/partnerships-and-resellers/ https://mullvad.net/en/help/partnerships-and-resellers/
- vord1080 5y ago
  Lost marketshare is the silliest criticism of them all I think. What to change that? Use it and tell your friends, that simple. It's like a meta-criticism, same as CEO salary. The quality of the product has only increased. Just in the last version they started rolling out Fission and added form filling for PDFs.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    Lost marketshare isn't a criticism. It's an indication that every minute of the day, more current firefox are annoyed and leave than non-firefox users are attracted to install. CEO pay also isn't a criticism of the browser, its an indication that the organization either rewards failure, or sees its current situation as success. Either way, it doesn't bode well for the future.
    - vord1080 5y ago
      Lost marketshare is an observation. We can speculate all day. Did Firefox lose marketshare because of: Google intentionally making their sites worse in Firefox? The lack of multiprocess for so long? No support for Google Earth until 2020? Google shipping a polyfill that made YouTube.com 3x slower in Firefox and Safari for years? The move to WebExtensions happening too late, resulting in burnout and lost interest from the extension community because they had already ported their extensions to e10s? Slack going out of their way to use a non-standard SDP format thats only supported in Chrome, resulting in no other browsing supporting video calls? Microsoft Teams also does the same thing. Mobile overtaking desktop, where Chrome reigns supreme as a platform default?
pessimizer 5y ago
> The day Google stops buying Firefox's ad space, Mozilla has hundreds of alternative options for generating revenue. Then it's really bizarre that they leave all of this money on the table, seeing as the money they get from google only requires setting a single variable. Maybe it's not actually true.
- ZiiS 5y ago
  Google pay the most, but the are alternatives if that falls through, nothing being left on the table.