5 ms·

Don't you care about an open internet?

by tdrdt 5y ago

wayneftw 5y ago
If you really believe that Mozilla is out there protecting anything and not just collecting a paycheck - I've got a bridge to sell you. Chrome does everything I want right now. The minute it doesn't I'll use Brave. Oh and before you say something like "Google has complete control over every Chromium fork" stop right there because you're wrong. Brave is already not implementing Manifest v3. Both Edge and Brave replaced all dependence on Google services. Chrome is also only ~5 million lines of code. It's not impossible to maintain.
- vord1080 5y ago
  Chromium is more like ~35 million lines of code. And Brave is implementing Manifest V3, there's no choice in the matter. They'll be forced to because they rely on Google's Chrome Web Store (and chromium itself), which will stop accepting MV2 submissions in 2022. Their current claim is that they'll support the blocking webRequest functionality from MV2, that's it. You better hope Google doesn't block submission of MV3 extensions that use MV2 APIs that only work in forks.
  - wayneftw 5y ago
    > Chromium is more like ~35 million lines of code. Incorrect. It's ~5 million [0] > And Brave is implementing Manifest V3. Incomplete. Brave already announced that they're leaving the webRequest API intact. [1] > You better hope Google doesn't block submissions... Have ya heard of a thing called installing software? You can easily install extensions without clinging to a walled garden. Brave makes this easier than Chrome. Nothing said here has proved that Google has complete control over anything. Anyway enjoy using Firefox I guess? And you'd better hope that other web devs start to test with Firefox because most of them, including me, won't bother for the piddly amount of market share they still have. [0] https://www.quora.com/How-many-lines-of-code-is-Google-Chrome https://www.quora.com/How-many-lines-of-code-is-Google-Chrom... [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/opera-brave-vivaldi-to-ignore-chromes-anti-ad-blocker-changes-despite-shared-codebase/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/opera-brave-vivaldi-to-ignore-...
    - vord1080 5y ago
      My friend, your [0] is almost a decade old. I can pull the repository and prove that Chromium is even more than 35 million sloc. There's also nothing "incomplete" about what I said. I did say that they claim they're leaving blocking webRequest intact. Brave also doesn't make sideloading extensions easy. Enjoy your constant nagging from having developer mode enabled. Most users won't even go through the trouble.
      - wayneftw 5y ago
        Incorrect and illogical on both points. Did you not realize that the repo contains a copy of every third party lib they use? It didn't go from 5 to 35 LoC in 5 years buddy xD. Imagine also thinking that Brave will go through the trouble of leaving the webRequest API in place and then sit on their hands and not finish the other side of that equation. Too funny, sonny!
        vord1080 5y ago
        > Did you not realize that the repo contains a copy of every third party lib they use? Except it doesn't. And even if it did, my point is valid. Those libraries are being used in Chromium, and thus need to be maintained for use in Chromium. You can't just let your dependencies rot :) > It didn't go from 5 to 35 LoC in 5 years buddy It...did? Do me a favor, write a JavaScript engine, layout engine, crossplatform audio library, crossplatform gfx stack, webgl implementation, webgpu implementation, and about 9000 other things and keep it under 5 million lines. You can't. The web has legitimately expanded in scope to the point where we're pushing double digits on total lines of code. > Imagine also thinking that Brave will go through the trouble of leaving the webRequest API in place and then sit on their hands and not finish the other side of that equation. Now we're speculating about something that hasn't actually happened yet. Where is Brave's equivalent to addons.mozilla.org? Am I supposed to hope they have a perfect plan to deal with the limitations of Manifest v3 and just haven't announced it yet? I'll believe it when I see it.
        wayneftw 5y ago
skytreader 5y ago
Not the person you asked but I, too, still use Chrome[1] for personal stuff on desktop. Why do I get a black-and-white vibe in this question? Like, either I support an open internet (by not using Chrome) or I am a horrible person for being a BIGCORP shill and I'm no true hacker, shame, shame! Can't I be simply tired of switching browsers, making even minor adjustments to my workflow, every damn time my current browser manufacturer does something the internet adjudges to be morally corrupt? I don't disagree with the collective in this case either. For me it's just easier to reconfigure Chrome to not do auto login on every fresh install. Maybe the day Google removes this option is the day I finally switch to Firefox for good. Or maybe I'd wait for a fork/plugin that restores the ability to opt out. [1] For work purposes I use Firefox but it's not for any hacktivist idealism. It just fits my workflow. In Android I use Firefox full time too because I got fed up of AMP but it's still all about the experience.

Don't you care about an open internet?

by tdrdt 5y ago

Don't you care about an open internet?

If you really believe that Mozilla is out there protecting anything and not just collecting a paycheck - I've got a bridge to sell you. Chrome does everything I want right now. The minute it doesn't I'll use Brave. Oh and before you say something like "Google has complete control over every Chromium fork" stop right there because you're wrong. Brave is already not implementing Manifest v3. Both Edge and Brave replaced all dependence on Google services. Chrome is also only ~5 million lines of code. It's not impossible to maintain.

vord1080 5y ago
Chromium is more like ~35 million lines of code. And Brave is implementing Manifest V3, there's no choice in the matter. They'll be forced to because they rely on Google's Chrome Web Store (and chromium itself), which will stop accepting MV2 submissions in 2022. Their current claim is that they'll support the blocking webRequest functionality from MV2, that's it. You better hope Google doesn't block submission of MV3 extensions that use MV2 APIs that only work in forks.
- wayneftw 5y ago
  > Chromium is more like ~35 million lines of code. Incorrect. It's ~5 million [0] > And Brave is implementing Manifest V3. Incomplete. Brave already announced that they're leaving the webRequest API intact. [1] > You better hope Google doesn't block submissions... Have ya heard of a thing called installing software? You can easily install extensions without clinging to a walled garden. Brave makes this easier than Chrome. Nothing said here has proved that Google has complete control over anything. Anyway enjoy using Firefox I guess? And you'd better hope that other web devs start to test with Firefox because most of them, including me, won't bother for the piddly amount of market share they still have. [0] https://www.quora.com/How-many-lines-of-code-is-Google-Chrome https://www.quora.com/How-many-lines-of-code-is-Google-Chrom... [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/opera-brave-vivaldi-to-ignore-chromes-anti-ad-blocker-changes-despite-shared-codebase/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/opera-brave-vivaldi-to-ignore-...
  - vord1080 5y ago
    My friend, your [0] is almost a decade old. I can pull the repository and prove that Chromium is even more than 35 million sloc. There's also nothing "incomplete" about what I said. I did say that they claim they're leaving blocking webRequest intact. Brave also doesn't make sideloading extensions easy. Enjoy your constant nagging from having developer mode enabled. Most users won't even go through the trouble.
    - wayneftw 5y ago
      Incorrect and illogical on both points. Did you not realize that the repo contains a copy of every third party lib they use? It didn't go from 5 to 35 LoC in 5 years buddy xD. Imagine also thinking that Brave will go through the trouble of leaving the webRequest API in place and then sit on their hands and not finish the other side of that equation. Too funny, sonny!
      - vord1080 5y ago
        > Did you not realize that the repo contains a copy of every third party lib they use? Except it doesn't. And even if it did, my point is valid. Those libraries are being used in Chromium, and thus need to be maintained for use in Chromium. You can't just let your dependencies rot :) > It didn't go from 5 to 35 LoC in 5 years buddy It...did? Do me a favor, write a JavaScript engine, layout engine, crossplatform audio library, crossplatform gfx stack, webgl implementation, webgpu implementation, and about 9000 other things and keep it under 5 million lines. You can't. The web has legitimately expanded in scope to the point where we're pushing double digits on total lines of code. > Imagine also thinking that Brave will go through the trouble of leaving the webRequest API in place and then sit on their hands and not finish the other side of that equation. Now we're speculating about something that hasn't actually happened yet. Where is Brave's equivalent to addons.mozilla.org? Am I supposed to hope they have a perfect plan to deal with the limitations of Manifest v3 and just haven't announced it yet? I'll believe it when I see it.
        wayneftw 5y ago

skytreader 5y ago

Not the person you asked but I, too, still use Chrome[1] for personal stuff on desktop. Why do I get a black-and-white vibe in this question? Like, either I support an open internet (by not using Chrome) or I am a horrible person for being a BIGCORP shill and I'm no true hacker, shame, shame! Can't I be simply tired of switching browsers, making even minor adjustments to my workflow, every damn time my current browser manufacturer does something the internet adjudges to be morally corrupt? I don't disagree with the collective in this case either. For me it's just easier to reconfigure Chrome to not do auto login on every fresh install. Maybe the day Google removes this option is the day I finally switch to Firefox for good. Or maybe I'd wait for a fork/plugin that restores the ability to opt out. [1] For work purposes I use Firefox but it's not for any hacktivist idealism. It just fits my workflow. In Android I use Firefox full time too because I got fed up of AMP but it's still all about the experience.