5 ms·

I still find it fascinating that people post Hackintosh stuff online and make little or no attempt to hide their identity. I am no Apple apologist or loyalist,

I still find it fascinating that people post Hackintosh stuff online and make little or no attempt to hide their identity. I am no Apple apologist or loyalist, but this is clearly breaking their macOS EULA. Are Apple Legal just turning a blind eye to this stuff where the person is clearly identifiable? OP link goes to a blog post, one click away from there and I know this person's name, city and there's a photo of them. It's trivial. Don't get me wrong, there's no vendetta or negativity, I am genuinely curious about why people do this.

jcelerier 5y ago
Depending on the country the Apple EULA may or may not hold
zaptheimpaler 5y ago
Violating a EULA isn't illegal - it is a violation of your agreement with a company but not a violation of government law (in most places anyways?). The worst that could happen is being banned from Apple services. Apple gains little benefit from banning individual users, and stands to lose a lot if that person then publishes a blog post or something that goes viral. It would hurt them not just in the mass public perception, but also among developers in particular. If Apple was seriously concerned about hackintoshes, the logical place to start would be taking down the popular guides and forums discussing how to build hackintoshes, not targeting people who follow those guides. Shutting down a few subreddits / discords would deter far more people than targeting an individual. Finally, hackintoshes have been around decades. 99% of people who want to use Mac will not have the knowledge/time/energy to do this and will just buy a Mac instead. The niche is sort of self-limiting to a tiny group of people, so it will never be an existential threat to the sale of Apple products. So overall I don't see much risk in doing stuff like this.. the risk/reward for Apple in going after Hackintoshers just doesn't make sense. So hackintosh away ;)
- mavhc 5y ago
  If Apple was seriously concerned about hackintoshes they'd develop their own custom CPU that they owned and no one else had access to.
  - zaptheimpaler 5y ago
    If the government was seriously concerned about tracking people they'd manufacture a viral pandemic and put microchips in the vaccine. Is that a good reason to believe that COVID was created by the government? M1/Hackintosh - same reasoning, different example.
  - microtonal 5y ago
    I think it is very obvious that this was not their motivation. Hobbyist hackintosh is barely a blip on the radar. They switched to their own CPU because Intel screwed up, plus they want to increase vertical integration. But of course, it is quite likely that once Apple kills x86_64 macOS, it's also the end of Hackintosh. Apple uses too many proprietary extensions (e.g. AMX) and custom hardware (neural engine, GPU, etc.) to make running macOS on generic ARM hardware easy.
    - mavhc 5y ago
      Indeed, they did own 40% of ARM as a co-founder at one point. When iOS is 90% of your business you need to reduce the costs of the other 10%
- microtonal 5y ago
  The niche is sort of self-limiting to a tiny group of people, so it will never be an existential threat to the sale of Apple products. Indeed. Setting up a hackintosh is only really feasible for people with some tech chops. In most Western countries, someone with enough technical background to set up a hackintosh machine will probably have an hourly wage where (hardware price + hourly wages x hours to setup/maintain hackintosh) >> purchase price hackintosh. Setting up and maintaining a hackintosh is just a fun technical challenge for a lot of people. Similar to how running OpenBSD on a PowerPC or SPARC is fun. Some will also use hackintosh because Apple doesn't offer the hardware that they want. Apple seems to draw a line at selling Hackintosh machines (see e.g. their lawsuit against Psystar [1]). Fully compatible, supported hackintoshes would be a threat to Apple's bottom line. --- Both me and a family member installed OS X on a HP/Dell laptop in 2007 as sort of a challenge. We both liked OS X so much that we had both bought a Mac Mini and a MacBook in weeks and have been users since then. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psystar_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psystar_Corporation
account_c 5y ago
I think for a lot of people the amount of fucks given is almost zero. Has Apple ever gone after a user in a way to cause others to take caution?
ajuc 5y ago
At least in most of EU EULAs that weren't individually negotiated and that the end user is forced to accept to use the product are automatically illegal. I.e. almost all of them. The way Americans let their IT overlords dictate their lives seems pretty absurd from here :)
- microtonal 5y ago
  The EULA may be illegal, but copyright still prevents you from making copies of the software. So hackintosh is most likely also illegal in Europe, like downloading movies or music.
  - Y_Y 5y ago
    Are you sure? My understanding is that in cases like this, copyright law within the EU allows you to make personal copies (often with software it's impossible not to). Distributing those copies is restricted, but I can back up a installer or install to my other machine without violating any statutes.
    - microtonal 5y ago
      IANAL, this is not legal advice. My understanding is that in cases like this, copyright law within the EU allows you to make personal copies Personal copy (singular). However, more relevant in this context: You are allowed to download a work protected by copyright from the internet provided you have the author’s permission. The permission to download can be indicated in the terms and conditions of the respective internet site or can be derived from the reference to an open content licence or its terms. If you do not have a Mac, Apple does not give you permission to download macOS. So, if you download macOS, you are violating copyright law. Furthermore: The circumvention of TPMs (technological protection measures) is not allowed. Probably using the Apple OSK string is on a Hackintosh considered circumventing protection measures. Source: https://euipo.europa.eu/ohimportal/en/web/observatory/faqs-on-copyright-lv https://euipo.europa.eu/ohimportal/en/web/observatory/faqs-o...
      - 5y ago
Hamuko 5y ago
I've never heard Apple ever go after any individual Hackintosh user. Only companies that attempt to sell them. Also, EULAs are basically digital toilet paper in large parts of the world.

jcelerier 5y ago

Depending on the country the Apple EULA may or may not hold

zaptheimpaler 5y ago

Violating a EULA isn't illegal - it is a violation of your agreement with a company but not a violation of government law (in most places anyways?). The worst that could happen is being banned from Apple services. Apple gains little benefit from banning individual users, and stands to lose a lot if that person then publishes a blog post or something that goes viral. It would hurt them not just in the mass public perception, but also among developers in particular. If Apple was seriously concerned about hackintoshes, the logical place to start would be taking down the popular guides and forums discussing how to build hackintoshes, not targeting people who follow those guides. Shutting down a few subreddits / discords would deter far more people than targeting an individual. Finally, hackintoshes have been around decades. 99% of people who want to use Mac will not have the knowledge/time/energy to do this and will just buy a Mac instead. The niche is sort of self-limiting to a tiny group of people, so it will never be an existential threat to the sale of Apple products. So overall I don't see much risk in doing stuff like this.. the risk/reward for Apple in going after Hackintoshers just doesn't make sense. So hackintosh away ;)

mavhc 5y ago
If Apple was seriously concerned about hackintoshes they'd develop their own custom CPU that they owned and no one else had access to.
- zaptheimpaler 5y ago
  If the government was seriously concerned about tracking people they'd manufacture a viral pandemic and put microchips in the vaccine. Is that a good reason to believe that COVID was created by the government? M1/Hackintosh - same reasoning, different example.
- microtonal 5y ago
  I think it is very obvious that this was not their motivation. Hobbyist hackintosh is barely a blip on the radar. They switched to their own CPU because Intel screwed up, plus they want to increase vertical integration. But of course, it is quite likely that once Apple kills x86_64 macOS, it's also the end of Hackintosh. Apple uses too many proprietary extensions (e.g. AMX) and custom hardware (neural engine, GPU, etc.) to make running macOS on generic ARM hardware easy.
  - mavhc 5y ago
    Indeed, they did own 40% of ARM as a co-founder at one point. When iOS is 90% of your business you need to reduce the costs of the other 10%
microtonal 5y ago
The niche is sort of self-limiting to a tiny group of people, so it will never be an existential threat to the sale of Apple products. Indeed. Setting up a hackintosh is only really feasible for people with some tech chops. In most Western countries, someone with enough technical background to set up a hackintosh machine will probably have an hourly wage where (hardware price + hourly wages x hours to setup/maintain hackintosh) >> purchase price hackintosh. Setting up and maintaining a hackintosh is just a fun technical challenge for a lot of people. Similar to how running OpenBSD on a PowerPC or SPARC is fun. Some will also use hackintosh because Apple doesn't offer the hardware that they want. Apple seems to draw a line at selling Hackintosh machines (see e.g. their lawsuit against Psystar [1]). Fully compatible, supported hackintoshes would be a threat to Apple's bottom line. --- Both me and a family member installed OS X on a HP/Dell laptop in 2007 as sort of a challenge. We both liked OS X so much that we had both bought a Mac Mini and a MacBook in weeks and have been users since then. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psystar_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psystar_Corporation

account_c 5y ago

I think for a lot of people the amount of fucks given is almost zero. Has Apple ever gone after a user in a way to cause others to take caution?

ajuc 5y ago

At least in most of EU EULAs that weren't individually negotiated and that the end user is forced to accept to use the product are automatically illegal. I.e. almost all of them. The way Americans let their IT overlords dictate their lives seems pretty absurd from here :)

microtonal 5y ago
The EULA may be illegal, but copyright still prevents you from making copies of the software. So hackintosh is most likely also illegal in Europe, like downloading movies or music.
- Y_Y 5y ago
  Are you sure? My understanding is that in cases like this, copyright law within the EU allows you to make personal copies (often with software it's impossible not to). Distributing those copies is restricted, but I can back up a installer or install to my other machine without violating any statutes.
  - microtonal 5y ago
    IANAL, this is not legal advice. My understanding is that in cases like this, copyright law within the EU allows you to make personal copies Personal copy (singular). However, more relevant in this context: You are allowed to download a work protected by copyright from the internet provided you have the author’s permission. The permission to download can be indicated in the terms and conditions of the respective internet site or can be derived from the reference to an open content licence or its terms. If you do not have a Mac, Apple does not give you permission to download macOS. So, if you download macOS, you are violating copyright law. Furthermore: The circumvention of TPMs (technological protection measures) is not allowed. Probably using the Apple OSK string is on a Hackintosh considered circumventing protection measures. Source: https://euipo.europa.eu/ohimportal/en/web/observatory/faqs-on-copyright-lv https://euipo.europa.eu/ohimportal/en/web/observatory/faqs-o...
    - 5y ago

Hamuko 5y ago

I've never heard Apple ever go after any individual Hackintosh user. Only companies that attempt to sell them. Also, EULAs are basically digital toilet paper in large parts of the world.