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When people bring this up it always reminds me of this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo59LlkTDe4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo59LlkTDe4 All the o

by kcb 5y ago

When people bring this up it always reminds me of this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo59LlkTDe4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo59LlkTDe4 All the older first gen immigrants are like, it's not all authentic but it's pretty similar and tasty would eat it again. While the later gen kids are acting like its dog food.

c21h30o2 5y ago
Old Chinese people have experienced starvation. Young people have not.
bobthepanda 5y ago
It's also hilarious to act like there is one authorative version of a Chinese dish. China is 1 billion people over a large geographic area that has culturally exchanged for hundreds and in some cases thousands of years; at this point, the same dish can have many regional variations in preparation. The mapo tofu or kung pao chicken you find in its homeland of Chongqing is going to be very different from the versions of the dish served to locals in Beijing, Shanghai, or Guangzhou. In that sense, American preparations of the same dish are adjusted to local taste and ingredient availability.
- bllguo 5y ago
  What exactly is hilarious about the concept of authenticity? I don't see the argument
  - grey-area 5y ago
    There is no single ‘authentic’ version of a given dish, just infinite variety and shades of authenticity depending on what you mean by that and your particular experiences.
    - bllguo 5y ago
      I agree with most of that (I don't think personal experiences play much of a part; it's more about culture IMO), but I read the comment as suggesting authenticity is meaningless, which is a sentiment I have heard before and very much reject
      - bobthepanda 5y ago
        The fetishization of the authentic is overwrought and is basically just exoticism. Most traditional recipes, if they were even standardized (and the aforementioned mapo tofu, as an example, is not at all) have only been like that in the last 100-150 years. In fact, I have seen people claim food that actually does come from China/Hong Kong as inauthentic. As an example, honey walnut shrimp is actually a dish from Hong Kong style western cuisine, which lost popularity in its homeland but is still made by the diaspora. To fetishize the authenticity of food is to reject progress and innovation. Korean or Indian food is no less authentic with the addition of chilis, even though those are not native plants to those regions and were introduced from the New World.
        bllguo 5y ago
        What a coincidence, I was actually thinking of honey walnut shrimp! If you conflate quality with authenticity I could see how "fetishizing" authenticity is tantamount to rejecting innovation. But I think they are distinct concepts, so I have to disagree. I also wouldn't characterize my stance as fetishization, more that authenticity is also something to appreciate, below more important factors like taste.
        bobthepanda 5y ago
        Plenty of people conflate “authenticity” with “real”, and the implied antonym is “fake” which has plenty of negative meaning and has certainly been used to that effect. E.g. “real food does not contain MSG.”
  - skyyler 5y ago
    >"Thirty years ago, there was no sushi in the U.K. or the U.S. Then someone introduced it: It was strange, it was wild—oh my God, it's raw fish with vinegary rice and horseradish—give me a break, why would I want to eat that? But people persevered and now there is sushi in every major city in the world. And it's popular too. What if I said sushi was a fraud, that it was never a traditional cuisine in Japan, and this guy called Mr. Sushi invented it? So instead of it being an authentic regional cuisine, no we lied to you, it is an invention. Would that make a difference or not? If it is really delicious, does it matter and should I care if it comes from Japan or California or even if it has no regional origin?" I think Nathan Myhrvold’s takes on the “authenticity” of food are nice.
    - pkaye 5y ago
      I've read that Salmon sushi is a recent thing for the Japanese after Norway marketed their salmon to them. https://www.npr.org/2015/09/18/441530790/how-the-desperate-norwegian-salmon-industry-created-a-sushi-staple https://www.npr.org/2015/09/18/441530790/how-the-desperate-n...
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - bllguo 5y ago
      Yes, it doesn't matter for taste, and I am not saying the authentic version of a dish is inherently "better". But of course it makes a difference, it affects how we perceive Japanese culture. There's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying non-authentic foods or being inspired to make variations/fusion dishes, but ignoring their origins is very insensitive IMO. I don't see what is so painful about acknowledging authenticity. Edit: really it boils down to food being a huge part of culture. For example, when you say Pizza Hut is authentic Italian cuisine, you are saying something about Italian culture, and wanting to correct that is a perfectly normal thing to feel. We should not conflate authenticity with quality, but authenticity still matters.
      - bobthepanda 5y ago
silisili 5y ago
Young people have something to prove, or differentiate themselves. See: hipsters. White kids would also talk about how bad say, Chiles or Applebee's is, for the same reason.
- bllguo 5y ago
  I think in this case, "something to prove" is the desire to defend their culture
  - silisili 5y ago
    There is a difference between saying 'this is nothing like food in China', vs 'ugh its so bland/greasy/lifeless.' In the video in question, the young people's complaints were very much the latter. The old people seemed to more correlate it vs food in their country, but rated the food on its merits.

by kcb 5y ago

c21h30o2 5y ago

Old Chinese people have experienced starvation. Young people have not.

bobthepanda 5y ago

It's also hilarious to act like there is one authorative version of a Chinese dish. China is 1 billion people over a large geographic area that has culturally exchanged for hundreds and in some cases thousands of years; at this point, the same dish can have many regional variations in preparation. The mapo tofu or kung pao chicken you find in its homeland of Chongqing is going to be very different from the versions of the dish served to locals in Beijing, Shanghai, or Guangzhou. In that sense, American preparations of the same dish are adjusted to local taste and ingredient availability.

bllguo 5y ago
What exactly is hilarious about the concept of authenticity? I don't see the argument
- grey-area 5y ago
  There is no single ‘authentic’ version of a given dish, just infinite variety and shades of authenticity depending on what you mean by that and your particular experiences.
  - bllguo 5y ago
    I agree with most of that (I don't think personal experiences play much of a part; it's more about culture IMO), but I read the comment as suggesting authenticity is meaningless, which is a sentiment I have heard before and very much reject
    - bobthepanda 5y ago
      The fetishization of the authentic is overwrought and is basically just exoticism. Most traditional recipes, if they were even standardized (and the aforementioned mapo tofu, as an example, is not at all) have only been like that in the last 100-150 years. In fact, I have seen people claim food that actually does come from China/Hong Kong as inauthentic. As an example, honey walnut shrimp is actually a dish from Hong Kong style western cuisine, which lost popularity in its homeland but is still made by the diaspora. To fetishize the authenticity of food is to reject progress and innovation. Korean or Indian food is no less authentic with the addition of chilis, even though those are not native plants to those regions and were introduced from the New World.
      - bllguo 5y ago
        What a coincidence, I was actually thinking of honey walnut shrimp! If you conflate quality with authenticity I could see how "fetishizing" authenticity is tantamount to rejecting innovation. But I think they are distinct concepts, so I have to disagree. I also wouldn't characterize my stance as fetishization, more that authenticity is also something to appreciate, below more important factors like taste.
        bobthepanda 5y ago
        Plenty of people conflate “authenticity” with “real”, and the implied antonym is “fake” which has plenty of negative meaning and has certainly been used to that effect. E.g. “real food does not contain MSG.”
- skyyler 5y ago
  >"Thirty years ago, there was no sushi in the U.K. or the U.S. Then someone introduced it: It was strange, it was wild—oh my God, it's raw fish with vinegary rice and horseradish—give me a break, why would I want to eat that? But people persevered and now there is sushi in every major city in the world. And it's popular too. What if I said sushi was a fraud, that it was never a traditional cuisine in Japan, and this guy called Mr. Sushi invented it? So instead of it being an authentic regional cuisine, no we lied to you, it is an invention. Would that make a difference or not? If it is really delicious, does it matter and should I care if it comes from Japan or California or even if it has no regional origin?" I think Nathan Myhrvold’s takes on the “authenticity” of food are nice.
  - pkaye 5y ago
    I've read that Salmon sushi is a recent thing for the Japanese after Norway marketed their salmon to them. https://www.npr.org/2015/09/18/441530790/how-the-desperate-norwegian-salmon-industry-created-a-sushi-staple https://www.npr.org/2015/09/18/441530790/how-the-desperate-n...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - bllguo 5y ago
    Yes, it doesn't matter for taste, and I am not saying the authentic version of a dish is inherently "better". But of course it makes a difference, it affects how we perceive Japanese culture. There's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying non-authentic foods or being inspired to make variations/fusion dishes, but ignoring their origins is very insensitive IMO. I don't see what is so painful about acknowledging authenticity. Edit: really it boils down to food being a huge part of culture. For example, when you say Pizza Hut is authentic Italian cuisine, you are saying something about Italian culture, and wanting to correct that is a perfectly normal thing to feel. We should not conflate authenticity with quality, but authenticity still matters.
    - bobthepanda 5y ago

silisili 5y ago

Young people have something to prove, or differentiate themselves. See: hipsters. White kids would also talk about how bad say, Chiles or Applebee's is, for the same reason.

bllguo 5y ago
I think in this case, "something to prove" is the desire to defend their culture
- silisili 5y ago
  There is a difference between saying 'this is nothing like food in China', vs 'ugh its so bland/greasy/lifeless.' In the video in question, the young people's complaints were very much the latter. The old people seemed to more correlate it vs food in their country, but rated the food on its merits.