5 ms·

Jefferson was a wealthy and powerful man who abandoned his own children to slavery. What kind of technological context might be relevant? The hindsight concern

Jefferson was a wealthy and powerful man who abandoned his own children to slavery. What kind of technological context might be relevant? The hindsight concern is valid in some cases but his was far from an "any one of us might be next" kind of failing. The motivation for even attempting to excuse Jefferson is obviously to protect ideas about government and liberty from being contaminated. But they're at far more risk IMO when instead we say, well his own estate was medieval but xyz, or it's not pertinent, or won't we all be judged wanting, etc

rayiner 5y ago
The moral relationship between people and their children has changed a lot. People back then abandoned illegitimate children all the time. Studies show, for example, that childhood mortality rates for illegitimate children were often twice as high as for legitimate children. E.g. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Infant-mortality-among-legitimate-and-illegitimate-children-in-Sweden-1801-1900-Deaths_fig6_26465833 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Infant-mortality-among-l.... Nobody is excusing Jefferson, because that’s not the purpose of this exercise. The history is what it is. But it’s important to understand and appreciate Jefferson. Many people have ideas about “government and liberty.” But Jefferson’s ideas produced one of the most prosperous societies in the history of the world.
- skedaddle 5y ago
  I'm confused by why you'd point out that historically parents were more ambivalent, if not to excuse Jefferson having enslaved his own offspring (which was not actually happening to everyone all the time).
  - rayiner 5y ago
    You don’t need to excuse anything to try and understand something. For example even in 2021, we have Afghans who refuse to send their girls to school. We can’t even comprehend that mindset here in America. We don’t need to excuse it to acknowledge that there may be more to it than us simply being better than Afghans. Pastoral societies are often strongly male dominated even compared to similarly undeveloped agricultural societies. The point is that morality isn’t simply about “we are better than the ignorant people of the past.” That’s part of it obviously, but scientific and technological change often changes the context of how we think about things.

rayiner 5y ago

The moral relationship between people and their children has changed a lot. People back then abandoned illegitimate children all the time. Studies show, for example, that childhood mortality rates for illegitimate children were often twice as high as for legitimate children. E.g. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Infant-mortality-among-legitimate-and-illegitimate-children-in-Sweden-1801-1900-Deaths_fig6_26465833 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Infant-mortality-among-l.... Nobody is excusing Jefferson, because that’s not the purpose of this exercise. The history is what it is. But it’s important to understand and appreciate Jefferson. Many people have ideas about “government and liberty.” But Jefferson’s ideas produced one of the most prosperous societies in the history of the world.

skedaddle 5y ago
I'm confused by why you'd point out that historically parents were more ambivalent, if not to excuse Jefferson having enslaved his own offspring (which was not actually happening to everyone all the time).
- rayiner 5y ago
  You don’t need to excuse anything to try and understand something. For example even in 2021, we have Afghans who refuse to send their girls to school. We can’t even comprehend that mindset here in America. We don’t need to excuse it to acknowledge that there may be more to it than us simply being better than Afghans. Pastoral societies are often strongly male dominated even compared to similarly undeveloped agricultural societies. The point is that morality isn’t simply about “we are better than the ignorant people of the past.” That’s part of it obviously, but scientific and technological change often changes the context of how we think about things.