4 ms·

The $900 felony rule keeps being brought up on HN, but the felony amount for Texas is $2500. Clearly something other than the misdemeanor/felony classification

by tyoma 5y ago

The $900 felony rule keeps being brought up on HN, but the felony amount for Texas is $2500. Clearly something other than the misdemeanor/felony classification is at play.

zdragnar 5y ago
Stealing in Texas is a significantly riskier proposition than stealing from someone in California.
- seehafer 5y ago
  Especially burglary. The scariest stories of post-Chesa SF for my money are the home invasion ones when the owners/tenants are present in the home. Burglaries in Texas don’t happen unless the thief is 100% certain nobody is home.
  - elefanten 5y ago
    Got any links on such incidents?
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      Here are some links: https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-crime-armed-robbery-sf-dad-held-at-gunpoint/10897952/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-crime-armed-robbery-sf-da... https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/woman-robbed-at-gunpoint-inside-her-san-francisco-home/ https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/woman-robbed-at-gunpoint... https://www.ktvu.com/video/643073 https://www.ktvu.com/video/643073 https://sfist.com/2021/07/11/66-year-old-san-francisco-resident-shoots-at-home-intruder-trying-to-break-into-apartment/ https://sfist.com/2021/07/11/66-year-old-san-francisco-resid...
    - edmundsauto 5y ago
      https://sfist.com/2021/07/11/66-year-old-san-francisco-resident-shoots-at-home-intruder-trying-to-break-into-apartment/ https://sfist.com/2021/07/11/66-year-old-san-francisco-resid... https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/tag/home-invasion-robbery/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/tag/home-invasion-robbery/ for the general category of home invasion. I think that's the technical difference, for anyone googling - robbery when you aren't home, invasion when residents are present.
  - siquqbsb 5y ago
    Burglaries in Texas definitely have people present and I personally recall multiple rapes and murders happening this way when I lived there. Home invasions even a tag on this Dallas news site. https://dfw.cbslocal.com/tag/home-invasion/ https://dfw.cbslocal.com/tag/home-invasion/ To be clear “home invasion” is Burglary with people present https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/home%20invasion https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/home%20invasion)
lowkey_ 5y ago
The difference is that Chesa Boudin, SF's DA, won't prosecute those misdemeanors (and often won't even prosecute felonies). > “We will not prosecute cases involving quality-of-life crimes,” the DA, Chesa Boudin, said in an interview while he was campaigning for office. “Crimes such as public camping, offering or soliciting sex, public urination, blocking a sidewalk, etc., should not and will not be prosecuted.” Despite that — or maybe because of it — he was elected. [1] > The initiative set a threshold of $950 for shoplifting to be considered a misdemeanor, which doesn't prompt law enforcement to make an arrest, rather than a felony, which could incur harsh penalties like jail time. "Some people calculate, 'Hey, you know, I don't want to go over the $950, so let me steal $949 worth of property,'" Scott said. "If it's a felony, our officers can take action," he added. "But if it's a misdemeanor, that arrest has to be a private person's arrest. And that makes a difference because they have to be willing to do that." [2] [1] https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/559465-the-little-things-are-turning-san-francisco-bad-in-a-big-way https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/559465-the-litt... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/after-san-francisco-shoplifting-video-goes-viral-officials-argue-thefts-n1273848 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/after-san-francisco-sho...
- jeffbee 5y ago
  Please indicate on the crime rate graph the point at which Chesa Boudin was elected. https://ibb.co/64jbBZ2 https://ibb.co/64jbBZ2
  - unreal37 5y ago
    Again, if you're not even arresting people for minor things like breaking windows, you're not going to see it on a "crime rate graph".
  - anonymoushn 5y ago
    Why would you call the police to report a crime that they have a policy of taking no action on?
bushbaba 5y ago
San Jose, and the peninsula don’t have nearly as much petty theft or shoplifting crime. And yet the laws are nearly identical. Only difference I can think of is the local community supporting the police.
- mgummelt 5y ago
  The laws aren't the only factor. They also have to be enforced, which they often aren't in SF.
- whateveracct 5y ago
  Could be. In WA, people like to say that Bellevue, Redmond, and the like will arrest their homeless people so they end up in King County jail..in Seattle. "Problem solved."
rsj_hn 5y ago
What's different is the enforcement of punishments. quote from https://saputo.law/criminal-law/texas/theft-crimes/theft/ https://saputo.law/criminal-law/texas/theft-crimes/theft/: * Theft under $100 is a Class C Misdemeanor (punishable by a fine up to $500). * Theft between $100 and $750 is a Class B Misdemeanor (punishable by up to 180 days in jail and a $2000 fine). If the value of the stolen property is under $100, it is still a Class B Misdemeanor theft if you have been previously convicted of theft of if the property stolen was an identification card like a driver’s license. * Theft between $750 and $2,500 is a Class A Misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail and a $4000 fine. In California, you are not likely to see any jail time (and often you will not see any prosecution at all) for the same crime that will be prosecuted in Texas. It's not about felonies per se, but the general attitude towards punishing crime.

by tyoma 5y ago

The $900 felony rule keeps being brought up on HN, but the felony amount for Texas is $2500. Clearly something other than the misdemeanor/felony classification is at play.

zdragnar 5y ago

Stealing in Texas is a significantly riskier proposition than stealing from someone in California.

seehafer 5y ago
Especially burglary. The scariest stories of post-Chesa SF for my money are the home invasion ones when the owners/tenants are present in the home. Burglaries in Texas don’t happen unless the thief is 100% certain nobody is home.
- elefanten 5y ago
  Got any links on such incidents?
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    Here are some links: https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-crime-armed-robbery-sf-dad-held-at-gunpoint/10897952/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-crime-armed-robbery-sf-da... https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/woman-robbed-at-gunpoint-inside-her-san-francisco-home/ https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/woman-robbed-at-gunpoint... https://www.ktvu.com/video/643073 https://www.ktvu.com/video/643073 https://sfist.com/2021/07/11/66-year-old-san-francisco-resident-shoots-at-home-intruder-trying-to-break-into-apartment/ https://sfist.com/2021/07/11/66-year-old-san-francisco-resid...
  - edmundsauto 5y ago
    https://sfist.com/2021/07/11/66-year-old-san-francisco-resident-shoots-at-home-intruder-trying-to-break-into-apartment/ https://sfist.com/2021/07/11/66-year-old-san-francisco-resid... https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/tag/home-invasion-robbery/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/tag/home-invasion-robbery/ for the general category of home invasion. I think that's the technical difference, for anyone googling - robbery when you aren't home, invasion when residents are present.
- siquqbsb 5y ago
  Burglaries in Texas definitely have people present and I personally recall multiple rapes and murders happening this way when I lived there. Home invasions even a tag on this Dallas news site. https://dfw.cbslocal.com/tag/home-invasion/ https://dfw.cbslocal.com/tag/home-invasion/ To be clear “home invasion” is Burglary with people present https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/home%20invasion https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/home%20invasion)

lowkey_ 5y ago

The difference is that Chesa Boudin, SF's DA, won't prosecute those misdemeanors (and often won't even prosecute felonies). > “We will not prosecute cases involving quality-of-life crimes,” the DA, Chesa Boudin, said in an interview while he was campaigning for office. “Crimes such as public camping, offering or soliciting sex, public urination, blocking a sidewalk, etc., should not and will not be prosecuted.” Despite that — or maybe because of it — he was elected. [1] > The initiative set a threshold of $950 for shoplifting to be considered a misdemeanor, which doesn't prompt law enforcement to make an arrest, rather than a felony, which could incur harsh penalties like jail time. "Some people calculate, 'Hey, you know, I don't want to go over the $950, so let me steal $949 worth of property,'" Scott said. "If it's a felony, our officers can take action," he added. "But if it's a misdemeanor, that arrest has to be a private person's arrest. And that makes a difference because they have to be willing to do that." [2] [1] https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/559465-the-little-things-are-turning-san-francisco-bad-in-a-big-way https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/559465-the-litt... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/after-san-francisco-shoplifting-video-goes-viral-officials-argue-thefts-n1273848 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/after-san-francisco-sho...

jeffbee 5y ago
Please indicate on the crime rate graph the point at which Chesa Boudin was elected. https://ibb.co/64jbBZ2 https://ibb.co/64jbBZ2
- unreal37 5y ago
  Again, if you're not even arresting people for minor things like breaking windows, you're not going to see it on a "crime rate graph".
- anonymoushn 5y ago
  Why would you call the police to report a crime that they have a policy of taking no action on?

bushbaba 5y ago

San Jose, and the peninsula don’t have nearly as much petty theft or shoplifting crime. And yet the laws are nearly identical. Only difference I can think of is the local community supporting the police.

mgummelt 5y ago
The laws aren't the only factor. They also have to be enforced, which they often aren't in SF.
whateveracct 5y ago
Could be. In WA, people like to say that Bellevue, Redmond, and the like will arrest their homeless people so they end up in King County jail..in Seattle. "Problem solved."

rsj_hn 5y ago

What's different is the enforcement of punishments. quote from https://saputo.law/criminal-law/texas/theft-crimes/theft/ https://saputo.law/criminal-law/texas/theft-crimes/theft/: * Theft under $100 is a Class C Misdemeanor (punishable by a fine up to $500). * Theft between $100 and $750 is a Class B Misdemeanor (punishable by up to 180 days in jail and a $2000 fine). If the value of the stolen property is under $100, it is still a Class B Misdemeanor theft if you have been previously convicted of theft of if the property stolen was an identification card like a driver’s license. * Theft between $750 and $2,500 is a Class A Misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail and a $4000 fine. In California, you are not likely to see any jail time (and often you will not see any prosecution at all) for the same crime that will be prosecuted in Texas. It's not about felonies per se, but the general attitude towards punishing crime.