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> The WHO/CDC positions are consistent with the prevailing science. Aren’t these the organizations that lied to the public in March 2020, saying masks were not

by zionic 5y ago

> The WHO/CDC positions are consistent with the prevailing science. Aren’t these the organizations that lied to the public in March 2020, saying masks were not effective? They later justified their deception, at the cost of how many lives (?), by suggesting it was to prevent a shortage of masks for medical personnel. These organizations are not promoting the science to shape policy, they’re promoting policy with filtered science.

henrikschroder 5y ago
> Aren’t these the organizations that lied to the public in March 2020, saying masks were not effective? A simpler explanation, that is consistent with data, is that community masking was never very effective, and that the current mask guidelines are 100% about politics and signaling.
- jollybean 5y ago
  The notion that 7 Billion people in the world are living under a 'Mask Policy' which have no material value, but exists only for the purposes of 'signalling' is conspiratorial nonsense. At the start of the pandemic, the efficacy of masks in the commons was still debatable, more so than is now. Public Health Policy issues around getting 100's of millions of Westerners, not acclimated to wearing masks (as they are in some Asian countries), was a daunting concern, as we can see with all the anti-mask idiots even to this day. N95s in particular were acutely necessary in Healthcare settings and the supply chains from China towards the start of the pandemic in the US were not quite ramped-up, and were just becoming secure by the time the CDC switched to a pro-mask footing. Otherwise, any call by the CDC for 350M Americans to 'wear masks' would have likely overran the Healthcare supply chain. As the availability of PPE to Healthcare became secure, as Asian health officials urged Westerners to adopt mask policies, as we understand a bit more about masks, the policy shifted towards mask wearing. Obviously, masks are a marginal tactic in the fight against COVID, but there is a systematic benefit, especially over 350M people million people, wearing them when they are interacting wit others. If there is ambiguity in their efficacy, it's rational to err on the side of caution, not the other way. Because we are 'going with the policy' then it has to be supported and enforced, like anything else.
jollybean 5y ago
They didn't lie, they stated a policy valid for one context. When the context shifted, they changed policy. Public Health Policy is based on Science, but it's not the same as Science. It's a strategy, a general policy and set of communication principles, based on facts, designed to get a large variety of people moving towards better health outcomes. Some of those facts are not pretty, much of it is too complicated for public consumption, and necessarily not going to be directly part of the communication. Obviously, in the interest of transparency, those facts and other bits of information (such as study results) are definitely publicly available to anyone who can Google - but what you're going to hear from Fauci, CNN, the 'papers of record' is the basis of a Public Policy. If everyone acted conscientiously, in accordance with CDC guidelines, even while remaining vigilant to the extent they choose (i.e. verifying information as they so chose), this pandemic might very well have been already over.

by zionic 5y ago

henrikschroder 5y ago

> Aren’t these the organizations that lied to the public in March 2020, saying masks were not effective? A simpler explanation, that is consistent with data, is that community masking was never very effective, and that the current mask guidelines are 100% about politics and signaling.

jollybean 5y ago
The notion that 7 Billion people in the world are living under a 'Mask Policy' which have no material value, but exists only for the purposes of 'signalling' is conspiratorial nonsense. At the start of the pandemic, the efficacy of masks in the commons was still debatable, more so than is now. Public Health Policy issues around getting 100's of millions of Westerners, not acclimated to wearing masks (as they are in some Asian countries), was a daunting concern, as we can see with all the anti-mask idiots even to this day. N95s in particular were acutely necessary in Healthcare settings and the supply chains from China towards the start of the pandemic in the US were not quite ramped-up, and were just becoming secure by the time the CDC switched to a pro-mask footing. Otherwise, any call by the CDC for 350M Americans to 'wear masks' would have likely overran the Healthcare supply chain. As the availability of PPE to Healthcare became secure, as Asian health officials urged Westerners to adopt mask policies, as we understand a bit more about masks, the policy shifted towards mask wearing. Obviously, masks are a marginal tactic in the fight against COVID, but there is a systematic benefit, especially over 350M people million people, wearing them when they are interacting wit others. If there is ambiguity in their efficacy, it's rational to err on the side of caution, not the other way. Because we are 'going with the policy' then it has to be supported and enforced, like anything else.

jollybean 5y ago

They didn't lie, they stated a policy valid for one context. When the context shifted, they changed policy. Public Health Policy is based on Science, but it's not the same as Science. It's a strategy, a general policy and set of communication principles, based on facts, designed to get a large variety of people moving towards better health outcomes. Some of those facts are not pretty, much of it is too complicated for public consumption, and necessarily not going to be directly part of the communication. Obviously, in the interest of transparency, those facts and other bits of information (such as study results) are definitely publicly available to anyone who can Google - but what you're going to hear from Fauci, CNN, the 'papers of record' is the basis of a Public Policy. If everyone acted conscientiously, in accordance with CDC guidelines, even while remaining vigilant to the extent they choose (i.e. verifying information as they so chose), this pandemic might very well have been already over.