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They almost certainly aren’t listening to you https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertGReeve/status/1397032784703655938?s=20 https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertGReeve/st

They almost certainly aren’t listening to you https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertGReeve/status/1397032784703655938?s=20 https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertGReeve/status/1397032784703.... But the likely explanation isn’t any better imo.

elmomle 5y ago
I don't buy it. I have multiple times been served articles on my Google news feed about specific topics (e.g. dishwasher efficiency) that are orthogonal from my typical interests and that I had only ever discussed offline and never electronically in any form. I can think of no plausible explanation for this aside from Google obtaining audio that is ambiently gathered by my phone and feeding that back into their article-optimization engine.
- 8note 5y ago
  How do you know that your conversation partner did not look up dishwashers after your conversation? Or that there was not a trending YouTube video about dishwashers around the same time that prompted the conversation?
  - jrootabega 5y ago
    Yeah, and that's even more scary. Devices listening to you isn't NOT scary, but these companies are able to inject discussion topics into your personal life without you even realizing it. Online ads are, at worst, billboards. If you see a detergent ad right before you go grocery shopping, it doesn't matter that you didn't click it; just being at the top of your mental stack is worth a lot of money to them.
  - elmomle 5y ago
    In my case, I alone use my devices--nobody else uses my phone or computer, and no other devices are linked to my Google account. As to trending videos, I don't think I can fairly dismiss that conclusively, but all I can say is that it seems like a stretch and that an article about dishwasher efficiency stuck out like a sore thumb against my other news feed recommendations.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dolni 5y ago
I don't buy this. I was at a social outing some years back at pub that I had been to a number of times before with some longtime friends of mine. Somehow we got on the topic of favorite candies from childhood. I mentioned Warheads. I hadn't had one of those in two decades, and certainly hadn't seen any ads for them in a long time. But still, the very next day, I was getting ads for them on social media. Everyone I have ever asked about it has a similar story. You could whip up some kind of explanation that a friend of mine searched Warheads later. Or maybe a nearby bar patron overheard the conversation and searched for the candies. That just seems so unlikely, though. It was a miniscule detail in a larger conversation. But in terms of retail products discussed, it was one of only a few.
- shukantpal 5y ago
  Does it happen regularly?
- smackeyacky 5y ago
  Given the incredibly poor search results I get from Google Assistant I find the idea that the old Samsung phone is listening to my every word is plausible but should be extremely ineffective since when I am deliberately using it, it sucks. However, if I am half way through a movie and I want to find some detail on it, it inevitably shows up within the first few search results whether I'm watching it on DVD, a blu-ray or off a streaming service or broadcast TV. The streaming service I can understand, Blu-ray player could be talking to something I guess, the other two are harder to explain since I use an old DVD player that has no networking facility.
  - psadri 5y ago
    Maybe it’s just playing dumb?
    - smackeyacky 5y ago
      Ha. Voice recognition does seem to induce a large amount of anthropomorphism.
  - 5y ago
grandpoobah 5y ago
Going by this twitter poster's logic, the reason OP started seeing ads for traveling to Tokyo, is because the ad networks saw OP and his friend had a long conversation, and that OP and his friend had both previously traveled to Tokyo previously, and was betting on that subject coming up in conversation, triggering nostalgia, and figured that it might be able to convince one of these guys to buy a ticket based off of that :D
Buttons840 5y ago
What's scarier, that you saw an ad regarding very personal details of your life because your phone was listening, or even though your phone wasn't listening? People see this happen and reach for an explanation they understand, "my phone must have been eavesdropping!" The truth is these ad and data companies know this about you without your phone having to listen. To twist a quote from the Matrix: "So you're saying my phone listens to me? No, I'm saying these companies have such wide insights into your personal life and information that they don't have to listen."
- short12 5y ago
  I don't buy it for one simple reason. If they have so much data to target. Why is there targeting so shitty and ad quality so low? If they had so much data, why not do something useful with it besides low quality ads? I don't subscribe to them listening either to be clear
- cgriswald 5y ago
  When I notice this experience, it's usually because it's something I don't normally talk about. I don't believe that Facebook knows so much (about me and the people around me) that it knows about unlikely conversations I've just had based on (say) a conversation on a radio station I randomly heard while skimming through channels. I'm willing to believe it's a coincidence combined with my brain happening to bring it to my attention; but I'd believe they're hacking my microphone before I'd believe in clairvoyance.
  - behringer 5y ago
    The reality is that they, the ad companies, caused you to think about it or talk about it in the first place without you ever realizing it. Ads work incredibly well on people even when they think they aren't susceptible.
    - blitzar 5y ago
      What is more scary - they listened and then advertised to you or that you are so predictable that they can get you to talk about something totally random with your friends and then sell it to you all?
scrollbar 5y ago
The Twitter post you linked says it has been “debunked” but gives no citation etc. Where is this debunking? I have had these experiences, and in the article the author does their own self experiment and sees the hypothesized result
015a 5y ago
For me, its less about ads (I run adblocks everywhere, both on the computer and at the router level); but, the same idea surfaces in YouTube recommendations. One recent example was some random show a friend was telling me to watch. Later that night, YouTube started recommending videos about the show. I've tried to explain it logically, in much the same way a character in scooby-doo would say "there must be a logical explanation for all of this" when faced with a ghost. Did I search for it, or otherwise leave any intentional digital footprint of interest? Absolutely not. Its reasonable to think Google has correlated the two of us as knowing one another. At the very least: I have this friend's phone number and email address in my Google Contacts. Our phones were in the same room together, and I certainly have some Google Apps installed. Maybe they know via GPS, or maybe its same WiFi/IP Address. It is reasonable that my friend has expressed a digital footprint of interest in the show, and Google is now funneling the results over to me, thinking "hey you have friends who are into this obscure show, maybe you will be to" Of course, Google does not communicate its reasons. Its a black box. What I cannot explain is why it chose that night to make the recommendation. We spend a few hours every week together. My friend has been watching this show for a while, mentioning it maybe once previously on a communication channel I feel reasonably satisfied as being "secure". Then, they mention it in person, and Google chooses that day to make the recommendation to me. Its one thing to assume I may be interested because this friend is interested; what raises concern with me was the perfect timing. The funny part is, maybe Google isn't listening. It literally doesn't matter. Everyone I talk to, in my bubble outside of tech, believes they (meaning, "Big Tech") are. So, either: Google should be listening, because by-and-large people seem to think they are, and still use their products. Or: Google needs to realize their black box magic is conveying the impression that they are listening, and if their goal is to build trust, saying they aren't listening isn't enough; they need to dumb down their algorithms, or at least explain it better. Personally: I think they're listening. I suspect its unintentional. I suspect their systems have grown so big, with so little responsible oversight, that some data stream is getting fed into some classifier then into another algorithm, and in the end its influencing the profile it builds on google accounts for things like ads and recommendations. I suspect it isn't the smartphones doing it; I suspect its Google Home speakers, in combination with a less controversial temporal + geographical correlation between two people. Sure, this all sounds crazy. If you reading this works at Google; prove me wrong. I want to be proven wrong, with emphasis on the word proven. Why does YouTube make the recommendations it does? Why doesn't it explain the signals it uses in the generation of a recommendation? It must either be because you're afraid it would expose the depth and breadth of signals at your disposal, or, the algorithm isn't sophisticated enough to relay that information. And, maybe, just maybe, you'll begin to realize how bad both of those options are.

elmomle 5y ago

I don't buy it. I have multiple times been served articles on my Google news feed about specific topics (e.g. dishwasher efficiency) that are orthogonal from my typical interests and that I had only ever discussed offline and never electronically in any form. I can think of no plausible explanation for this aside from Google obtaining audio that is ambiently gathered by my phone and feeding that back into their article-optimization engine.

8note 5y ago
How do you know that your conversation partner did not look up dishwashers after your conversation? Or that there was not a trending YouTube video about dishwashers around the same time that prompted the conversation?
- jrootabega 5y ago
  Yeah, and that's even more scary. Devices listening to you isn't NOT scary, but these companies are able to inject discussion topics into your personal life without you even realizing it. Online ads are, at worst, billboards. If you see a detergent ad right before you go grocery shopping, it doesn't matter that you didn't click it; just being at the top of your mental stack is worth a lot of money to them.
- elmomle 5y ago
  In my case, I alone use my devices--nobody else uses my phone or computer, and no other devices are linked to my Google account. As to trending videos, I don't think I can fairly dismiss that conclusively, but all I can say is that it seems like a stretch and that an article about dishwasher efficiency stuck out like a sore thumb against my other news feed recommendations.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dolni 5y ago

I don't buy this. I was at a social outing some years back at pub that I had been to a number of times before with some longtime friends of mine. Somehow we got on the topic of favorite candies from childhood. I mentioned Warheads. I hadn't had one of those in two decades, and certainly hadn't seen any ads for them in a long time. But still, the very next day, I was getting ads for them on social media. Everyone I have ever asked about it has a similar story. You could whip up some kind of explanation that a friend of mine searched Warheads later. Or maybe a nearby bar patron overheard the conversation and searched for the candies. That just seems so unlikely, though. It was a miniscule detail in a larger conversation. But in terms of retail products discussed, it was one of only a few.

shukantpal 5y ago
Does it happen regularly?
smackeyacky 5y ago
Given the incredibly poor search results I get from Google Assistant I find the idea that the old Samsung phone is listening to my every word is plausible but should be extremely ineffective since when I am deliberately using it, it sucks. However, if I am half way through a movie and I want to find some detail on it, it inevitably shows up within the first few search results whether I'm watching it on DVD, a blu-ray or off a streaming service or broadcast TV. The streaming service I can understand, Blu-ray player could be talking to something I guess, the other two are harder to explain since I use an old DVD player that has no networking facility.
- psadri 5y ago
  Maybe it’s just playing dumb?
  - smackeyacky 5y ago
    Ha. Voice recognition does seem to induce a large amount of anthropomorphism.
- 5y ago

grandpoobah 5y ago

Going by this twitter poster's logic, the reason OP started seeing ads for traveling to Tokyo, is because the ad networks saw OP and his friend had a long conversation, and that OP and his friend had both previously traveled to Tokyo previously, and was betting on that subject coming up in conversation, triggering nostalgia, and figured that it might be able to convince one of these guys to buy a ticket based off of that :D

Buttons840 5y ago

What's scarier, that you saw an ad regarding very personal details of your life because your phone was listening, or even though your phone wasn't listening? People see this happen and reach for an explanation they understand, "my phone must have been eavesdropping!" The truth is these ad and data companies know this about you without your phone having to listen. To twist a quote from the Matrix: "So you're saying my phone listens to me? No, I'm saying these companies have such wide insights into your personal life and information that they don't have to listen."

short12 5y ago
I don't buy it for one simple reason. If they have so much data to target. Why is there targeting so shitty and ad quality so low? If they had so much data, why not do something useful with it besides low quality ads? I don't subscribe to them listening either to be clear
cgriswald 5y ago
When I notice this experience, it's usually because it's something I don't normally talk about. I don't believe that Facebook knows so much (about me and the people around me) that it knows about unlikely conversations I've just had based on (say) a conversation on a radio station I randomly heard while skimming through channels. I'm willing to believe it's a coincidence combined with my brain happening to bring it to my attention; but I'd believe they're hacking my microphone before I'd believe in clairvoyance.
- behringer 5y ago
  The reality is that they, the ad companies, caused you to think about it or talk about it in the first place without you ever realizing it. Ads work incredibly well on people even when they think they aren't susceptible.
  - blitzar 5y ago
    What is more scary - they listened and then advertised to you or that you are so predictable that they can get you to talk about something totally random with your friends and then sell it to you all?

scrollbar 5y ago

The Twitter post you linked says it has been “debunked” but gives no citation etc. Where is this debunking? I have had these experiences, and in the article the author does their own self experiment and sees the hypothesized result

015a 5y ago

For me, its less about ads (I run adblocks everywhere, both on the computer and at the router level); but, the same idea surfaces in YouTube recommendations. One recent example was some random show a friend was telling me to watch. Later that night, YouTube started recommending videos about the show. I've tried to explain it logically, in much the same way a character in scooby-doo would say "there must be a logical explanation for all of this" when faced with a ghost. Did I search for it, or otherwise leave any intentional digital footprint of interest? Absolutely not. Its reasonable to think Google has correlated the two of us as knowing one another. At the very least: I have this friend's phone number and email address in my Google Contacts. Our phones were in the same room together, and I certainly have some Google Apps installed. Maybe they know via GPS, or maybe its same WiFi/IP Address. It is reasonable that my friend has expressed a digital footprint of interest in the show, and Google is now funneling the results over to me, thinking "hey you have friends who are into this obscure show, maybe you will be to" Of course, Google does not communicate its reasons. Its a black box. What I cannot explain is why it chose that night to make the recommendation. We spend a few hours every week together. My friend has been watching this show for a while, mentioning it maybe once previously on a communication channel I feel reasonably satisfied as being "secure". Then, they mention it in person, and Google chooses that day to make the recommendation to me. Its one thing to assume I may be interested because this friend is interested; what raises concern with me was the perfect timing. The funny part is, maybe Google isn't listening. It literally doesn't matter. Everyone I talk to, in my bubble outside of tech, believes they (meaning, "Big Tech") are. So, either: Google should be listening, because by-and-large people seem to think they are, and still use their products. Or: Google needs to realize their black box magic is conveying the impression that they are listening, and if their goal is to build trust, saying they aren't listening isn't enough; they need to dumb down their algorithms, or at least explain it better. Personally: I think they're listening. I suspect its unintentional. I suspect their systems have grown so big, with so little responsible oversight, that some data stream is getting fed into some classifier then into another algorithm, and in the end its influencing the profile it builds on google accounts for things like ads and recommendations. I suspect it isn't the smartphones doing it; I suspect its Google Home speakers, in combination with a less controversial temporal + geographical correlation between two people. Sure, this all sounds crazy. If you reading this works at Google; prove me wrong. I want to be proven wrong, with emphasis on the word proven. Why does YouTube make the recommendations it does? Why doesn't it explain the signals it uses in the generation of a recommendation? It must either be because you're afraid it would expose the depth and breadth of signals at your disposal, or, the algorithm isn't sophisticated enough to relay that information. And, maybe, just maybe, you'll begin to realize how bad both of those options are.