6 ms·

Has anything ever actually replaced VS? I've only ever used VS for hobby/side projects, and even 10 years ago it was leaps and bounds better than what I have t

by creato 5y ago

Has anything ever actually replaced VS? I've only ever used VS for hobby/side projects, and even 10 years ago it was leaps and bounds better than what I have to use for my professional day to day work now (code completion, debugger are the two things that I miss basically every day). The tools that I use now have these features, but they're such a joke in comparison. The code completion has no notion of "code", it's just looking for similar words.

moogly 5y ago
For many workloads (at least .NET), JetBrains Rider. For C/C++ on Windows, well, you have VS Code and also JetBrains CLion, but IMO CLion is surprisingly rougher than Rider, even though it's older. You can get stuff done though.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Good luck doing MFC, ATL, UWP, DirectX debugging with VSCode.
  - moogly 5y ago
    The "some workloads" also apply for that. I don't know about DirectX, but the other ones might be doable as long as you create the project once in VS and then (for MFC and ATL) hand edit the normally tool-generated partial classes. For UWP, you'd have to hand wrangle the XAML. You'd then invoke MSBuild for building. AFAIK there's nothing super special about MFC and ATL that would make debugging impossible, but it's true I've never tried it in VS Code.
- enhray 5y ago
  For C/C++ on Windows and Linux. CMake build support and cross-platform builds and debugging are available out of the box with Community version of VS.
- nodejs_rulez_1 5y ago
  Rider is a non-starter - doesn't even have a community edition.
  - kroltan 5y ago
    EAP is free, and the subscriptions also work as a one-time payment by giving you permanent access to the latest-at-subscription-start version when accruing a year's worth. So you can pay 1 year and not renew, and it's the same as just buying the thing.
  - d3nj4l 5y ago
    You can use the EAP builds for free in exchange for some stability issues, which in my experience have affected me all of 0 times. You can even download EAP builds from the toolbox for convenience by clicking on Rider and switching to the "Versions" tab.
  - jerriep 5y ago
    It is worth the money. Also, there a verious free license programs available, for example to students, open source maintainers, etc.
  - katbyte 5y ago
    I get the all products pack every year personally and it's worth every penny. One of the two software packages i break my "no subscriptions" rule for, and the only one i'm not even salty about doing so.
    - moonchrome 5y ago
      This - if you're a professional software developer you'll find value in the 200€/year package for their tools. They are just good all around. My only gripe is not supporting remote development but it's in the works.
      - tekknik 5y ago
        My problem with them is so many editors. I want one editor, and it should support every language I want to write in.
- other_herbert 5y ago
  I'll add my 0.02$ for rider too.. it even works (in EAP) for m1 arm... I do use vs code and rider depending on if I'm debugging something on the server or need to save the small amount of ram I've got on my air for debugging in the browser.. but m1 Rider is FAST.. far faster than even rider in linux on my xps with 32gb of ram
- igor_akhmetov 5y ago
  Note that Rider already supports C/C++ on Windows with the Rider for Unreal Engine fork. This fork is planned to get merged into mainline Rider sometime next year.
oaiey 5y ago
VS Code and language servers have leveled the game a lot. Regular Editing is pretty much on par. Debugging and diagnostic they are still strong.
- enhray 5y ago
  There's nothing "on par" when it comes to C/C++/C#, and these three languages are still quite big in non-web world.
  - hughw 5y ago
    I've built a ton of C++ in VS Code, and while not as exhaustive as VS, it's very good. You get used to living without Big Refactoring and it's fine.
    - vvanders 5y ago
      VSCode is still pretty sparse on the debugging side of things. I've tried to chase down heap corruption with it and the lack of data views, complex watch/breakpoints really limit it in that scenario. CLion is getting there, it's not quite as good yet but was still much better than VSCode.
  - oneplane 5y ago
    I doubt that. Unless you specifically target win32 and its non-core replacements (like classic full-fat C#) there is nothing that VS has to offer that outdoes other programs. For the non-web world specifically, the part that was Windows Server and Windows Desktop is simply a dead end outside of niches. And within the niches, comparisons are not all that relevant since... they are niches. If you have a specific job for a specific tool, then trying to compare that with something that does not meet those specifics isn't all that helpful. Most of my C/C++ work that remains doesn't even target windows anymore since there is no purpose for it. The super small subset that does is just things like device drivers, and that's more a property of the OS than of the project itself.
    - 5y ago
jimmaswell 5y ago
I use VS and VS Code for different things today. VS is much better for something it's made for like a C# project with a solution/projects, and VS code is great as something that works with an existing file structure like an old Java project or a folder full of random Python scripts. VS Code still has good code completion/etc but it doesn't seem able to match the instant responsiveness of VS.
oneplane 5y ago
To be honest, not needing to write legacy C# and C/C++ applications have replaced VS for me. It's not a replacement for VS itself in that regard, but the activities that used to be bound to that IDE moved on over the years. Whenever I have to load some old project into VS, it feels old, slow and clunky compared to other tools. The limitations on the structuring on-desk, metadata, building, linking etc. are very annoying as well for projects that ended up having more than just generic Windows Desktop targets (or even if they are highly specific editions/versions). I suppose that might be because other tooling outside of the process of the 'write-debug-release' chain has moved to broader and more interchangeable concepts where VS has remained basically the same for the last decade.
eitland 5y ago
> The tools that I use now have these features, but they're such a joke in comparison. The code completion has no notion of "code", it's just looking for similar words. Presumably you are not using anything built on the Eclipse, Jetbrains or NetBeans with any language they support? (PHP, Java, Kotlin, Python) Because out of the box and without any extras all these three beat Visual Studio easily once you start doing anything advanced except GUI, and NetBeans had a reasonable story to sell even there. On refactoring the story is if not night and day then at least dusk and broad daylight.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Try to polygot programming on JetBrains without extras, meaning managed / C / C++. Similar to what is going on here with Microsoft, they refuse to support what Eclipse and Netbeans do for free, as means to sell Clion licenses, and then make you run two IDEs in parallel.
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  If you want to use JetBrains tools with C# you have to buy Rider. Visual Studio is free for use unless you are a big company.
  - eitland 5y ago
    Correct, although for many (most?) of Jetbrains products it is free for students and one can apply for licenses for open source work. That said, for most .Net devs I know the first thing they do after installing Visual Studio is installing Resharper just to get it up to the same level that IntelliJ (including the open source community edition), NetBeans and Eclipse (both open source) provide out of the box.

by creato 5y ago

moogly 5y ago

For many workloads (at least .NET), JetBrains Rider. For C/C++ on Windows, well, you have VS Code and also JetBrains CLion, but IMO CLion is surprisingly rougher than Rider, even though it's older. You can get stuff done though.

pjmlp 5y ago
Good luck doing MFC, ATL, UWP, DirectX debugging with VSCode.
- moogly 5y ago
  The "some workloads" also apply for that. I don't know about DirectX, but the other ones might be doable as long as you create the project once in VS and then (for MFC and ATL) hand edit the normally tool-generated partial classes. For UWP, you'd have to hand wrangle the XAML. You'd then invoke MSBuild for building. AFAIK there's nothing super special about MFC and ATL that would make debugging impossible, but it's true I've never tried it in VS Code.
enhray 5y ago
For C/C++ on Windows and Linux. CMake build support and cross-platform builds and debugging are available out of the box with Community version of VS.
nodejs_rulez_1 5y ago
Rider is a non-starter - doesn't even have a community edition.
- kroltan 5y ago
  EAP is free, and the subscriptions also work as a one-time payment by giving you permanent access to the latest-at-subscription-start version when accruing a year's worth. So you can pay 1 year and not renew, and it's the same as just buying the thing.
- d3nj4l 5y ago
  You can use the EAP builds for free in exchange for some stability issues, which in my experience have affected me all of 0 times. You can even download EAP builds from the toolbox for convenience by clicking on Rider and switching to the "Versions" tab.
- jerriep 5y ago
  It is worth the money. Also, there a verious free license programs available, for example to students, open source maintainers, etc.
- katbyte 5y ago
  I get the all products pack every year personally and it's worth every penny. One of the two software packages i break my "no subscriptions" rule for, and the only one i'm not even salty about doing so.
  - moonchrome 5y ago
    This - if you're a professional software developer you'll find value in the 200€/year package for their tools. They are just good all around. My only gripe is not supporting remote development but it's in the works.
    - tekknik 5y ago
      My problem with them is so many editors. I want one editor, and it should support every language I want to write in.
other_herbert 5y ago
I'll add my 0.02$ for rider too.. it even works (in EAP) for m1 arm... I do use vs code and rider depending on if I'm debugging something on the server or need to save the small amount of ram I've got on my air for debugging in the browser.. but m1 Rider is FAST.. far faster than even rider in linux on my xps with 32gb of ram
igor_akhmetov 5y ago
Note that Rider already supports C/C++ on Windows with the Rider for Unreal Engine fork. This fork is planned to get merged into mainline Rider sometime next year.

oaiey 5y ago

VS Code and language servers have leveled the game a lot. Regular Editing is pretty much on par. Debugging and diagnostic they are still strong.

enhray 5y ago
There's nothing "on par" when it comes to C/C++/C#, and these three languages are still quite big in non-web world.
- hughw 5y ago
  I've built a ton of C++ in VS Code, and while not as exhaustive as VS, it's very good. You get used to living without Big Refactoring and it's fine.
  - vvanders 5y ago
    VSCode is still pretty sparse on the debugging side of things. I've tried to chase down heap corruption with it and the lack of data views, complex watch/breakpoints really limit it in that scenario. CLion is getting there, it's not quite as good yet but was still much better than VSCode.
- oneplane 5y ago
  I doubt that. Unless you specifically target win32 and its non-core replacements (like classic full-fat C#) there is nothing that VS has to offer that outdoes other programs. For the non-web world specifically, the part that was Windows Server and Windows Desktop is simply a dead end outside of niches. And within the niches, comparisons are not all that relevant since... they are niches. If you have a specific job for a specific tool, then trying to compare that with something that does not meet those specifics isn't all that helpful. Most of my C/C++ work that remains doesn't even target windows anymore since there is no purpose for it. The super small subset that does is just things like device drivers, and that's more a property of the OS than of the project itself.
  - 5y ago

jimmaswell 5y ago

I use VS and VS Code for different things today. VS is much better for something it's made for like a C# project with a solution/projects, and VS code is great as something that works with an existing file structure like an old Java project or a folder full of random Python scripts. VS Code still has good code completion/etc but it doesn't seem able to match the instant responsiveness of VS.

oneplane 5y ago

To be honest, not needing to write legacy C# and C/C++ applications have replaced VS for me. It's not a replacement for VS itself in that regard, but the activities that used to be bound to that IDE moved on over the years. Whenever I have to load some old project into VS, it feels old, slow and clunky compared to other tools. The limitations on the structuring on-desk, metadata, building, linking etc. are very annoying as well for projects that ended up having more than just generic Windows Desktop targets (or even if they are highly specific editions/versions). I suppose that might be because other tooling outside of the process of the 'write-debug-release' chain has moved to broader and more interchangeable concepts where VS has remained basically the same for the last decade.

eitland 5y ago

> The tools that I use now have these features, but they're such a joke in comparison. The code completion has no notion of "code", it's just looking for similar words. Presumably you are not using anything built on the Eclipse, Jetbrains or NetBeans with any language they support? (PHP, Java, Kotlin, Python) Because out of the box and without any extras all these three beat Visual Studio easily once you start doing anything advanced except GUI, and NetBeans had a reasonable story to sell even there. On refactoring the story is if not night and day then at least dusk and broad daylight.

pjmlp 5y ago
Try to polygot programming on JetBrains without extras, meaning managed / C / C++. Similar to what is going on here with Microsoft, they refuse to support what Eclipse and Netbeans do for free, as means to sell Clion licenses, and then make you run two IDEs in parallel.
DeathArrow 5y ago
If you want to use JetBrains tools with C# you have to buy Rider. Visual Studio is free for use unless you are a big company.
- eitland 5y ago
  Correct, although for many (most?) of Jetbrains products it is free for students and one can apply for licenses for open source work. That said, for most .Net devs I know the first thing they do after installing Visual Studio is installing Resharper just to get it up to the same level that IntelliJ (including the open source community edition), NetBeans and Eclipse (both open source) provide out of the box.