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This feels more like an internal turf war inside Microsoft. The general open source strategy with .NET Core and VS Code has been running long enough that I don'
by fabian2k 5y ago
This feels more like an internal turf war inside Microsoft. The general open source strategy with .NET Core and VS Code has been running long enough that I don't think it's just a smoke screen. But there's probably plenty of different interests inside Microsoft that are at least partially in conflict.
The Azure side probably doesn't care about selling Visual Studio, but they care about developer mindshare and reputation. The Visual Studio side seems to be in a more difficult position, I assumed they can just live from the enterprise/everyone else split and focus on enterprise-y stuff to still sell Visual Studio. But it looks a bit to me like VS Code and the .NET cli have become more of a competition than they'd like.
And the worst mistake here might not have been pissing off the .NET community, but pissing of the people working on .NET for Microsoft. I mean in the end this is the same, but pissing off the people working on .NET would result in a much more thorough destruction of trust with the community in the end.
But I have zero inside knowledge here, might just be weird decisions driven by internal politics or whatever.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- DeathArrow 5y agoHot reload was removed from the .NET 6 code at request of Julia Liuson, corporate vice president of Microsoft's Developer Division. She probably hoped she will sell a few more licenses of Visual Studio by gimping the open source tooling. Maybe Satya should keep an eye on her.
- S04dKHzrKT 5y agoI don't remember how old this is org chart graphic is, but it seems like it still applies. https://i.imgur.com/qZ0RDYw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qZ0RDYw.jpg
- bradfitz 5y agoOriginal source: https://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts https://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts
- oaiey 5y agoThere are people on record that it was the Azure division head Scott Guthrie who gave permission to open source ASP.NET Core (which at the time was part of Azure). Later the asp.net team merged with the .net team and brought the open sourcing with them. VS has no place anymore. The velocity and mindshare is with VS Code. VS with its visual designers had its place .. but desktop is dead and Xamarin competes with frameworks without costly IDEs.
- rafaelvasco 5y agoThere's some new smart code suggestion features on VS2022 that I've never seen anywhere else before. But talking about VSCode, it depends. For C# development it doesn't replace VS at all, far from it. Omnisharp is not good enough. There's scenarios and scenarios. I code game development things with C# on VS. And I work professionally coding JS stuff with VSCode. Different scenarios.
- selfhoster11 5y agoVS Code is not a replacement for an IDE. While I only know IntelliJ, I assume VS must be similar. In short, VS Code is a replacement for Notepad, and not for an IDE. It's not as well integrated, not as thought-out and capable. The only thing that saves it IMO is the remote server mode.
- jonathanlydall 5y agoVS is my daily driver and I absolutely agree that VS Code doesn’t come anywhere close to a fully fledged IDE like VS. But VS Code is far more just a text editor and that you can run and debug many languages in it in my opinion means it meets the criteria of an IDE. If I was forced to switch from VS to VS Code I would be miserable and feel handicapped, but infinitely more productive than just having a text editor and the dotnet CLI. So VS Code is absolutely a “replacement” for VS, but only for a poor man with a very limited set of required features. All the above being said, I don’t ever see VS Code truly replacing VS, but it’s a competent IDE considering its both cross platform and free as in beer.
- DeathArrow 5y ago
- lambda_dn 5y agoIt's basically the old, "Let's run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it." If no one complained about hot reload being a proprietary feature after being presented as a free improvement in the SDK then they wouldn't have reversed gear.
- brtkdotse 5y ago> The Visual Studio side seems to be in a more difficult position, I assumed they can just live from the enterprise/everyone else split and focus on enterprise-y stuff to still sell Visual Studio. While VS is my daily driver and I prefer it to Code and Rider, I have no idea how they make a profit. _No one_ buys the retail sticker priced SKUs, you either go through MSDN or Microsoft Partner Network and pay a fee hundred € for access to basically everything Microsoft puts out.