5 ms·

I used to live in Barcelona, the infrastructure is definitely anti car in every aspect, it's desired to be. For such a large city, the car traffic is minimal, t

by yawaworht1978 5y ago

I used to live in Barcelona, the infrastructure is definitely anti car in every aspect, it's desired to be. For such a large city, the car traffic is minimal, there are not enough parking opportunities, especially at the beach. There would be space, but the government knows better, if you have ever been in a tourist destination in Spain during peak season you will know that there is no way to accommodate all the cars. The only traffic jams you'll encounter is if an accident happened or if you go from Barcelona outwards toward the airport, when commuters go home on Friday afternoons or evening when headed to the nicer , less crowded beaches in the south. But absolutely nothing compared to London, I have lived there as well and driven a car. It's the city with the worst traffic jams you can imagine, it starts at 7am and never really ends, after 8pm it's quite calm and deserted one weekdays. But weekends, if you wanna go from the south east to the north, God help you. It's very bicycle friendly, own parts of the roads, unobstructed by cars. Taxis have a separate lane, and buses as well. The public transportation is also very good, affordable, you have buses, underground trains, and well, overground trains. And it's a nice city to walk, the old part of town, the huge parks, really nice. A role model implementation as far reducing car traffic issues go. Many people use these electro kind skateboards(forgot name) and scooters. And many people just walk. Of course , it needs to be mentioned that Barcelona is not built like American suburb areas, it's all apartment blocks of 3-7 stories, all blocks glued together. It's tight, they even have a convention on how to dry your clothes on balconies and how not to do it. Barcelona has many other issues, the typical ones for large cities, but transport and car traffic, I haven't seen better in Europe.

agumonkey 5y ago
how did people react to reduction of cars ? in many places every step toward reduction of car use is met with a lot of rants if not anger.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  The problem is a bunch of place introduce traffic limitations or some congestion tax... But then do nothing else! You have to find an alternative for people to not take their car (closer grocery shop for instance). Meanwhile the money goes to some pension fund for underperforming, unionized municipal workers...
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    I see, it's not smarter than here.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    But there's many supermarkets in the city! I have about 10 of them within 10 minutes walking. Several smaller ones within 1 minute.
- qgadrian 5y ago
  People who live in the city live it, people (specially rich people) who drives from outside the city hate it.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Yes I think one thing is kinda missing in this setup. The public transport in Barcelona is absolutely excellent. But there's no great way to get into it from the outside if you come by car. Most cities I know have Park & Ride facilities at the outskirts near ring roads. Barcelona doesn't seem to have these (though perhaps I'm missing them as I don't own a car). But I know my colleagues who come from outside are always struggling to find a parking spot, and they tell me there is no P&R.
    - jltsiren 5y ago
      That's a choice dense cities have to make. Is the city primarily a place where outsiders come to do business, or is it a place where its residents live? If the latter, then you don't want to make coming by car too easy, or you get too much traffic that makes the quality of life worse. Park & Ride is something that rarely makes economic sense. If you have a location with good public transport connections to the city, you probably want to build housing there. Alternate uses of the land – and parking in particular – are less valuable. Because people don't want to pay the market price for the land for parking, Park & Ride only works with heavy subsidies. The subsidies are usually implicit and implemented via zoning regulations, because taxpayers would revolt instantly against explicit subsidies.
      - toyg 5y ago
        I would argue Park & Ride just doesn't really work in most circumstances. As a commuter, you get twice the stress - a car trip (including the anxiety of leaving your vehicle in public places for extended periods) AND a public transport ride. It does work for tourists and other occasional visitors, but then the challenge is to make them aware it is an option when they plan the trip.
Darmody 5y ago
It has a good public transport system, yes, but ironically it's the only city where I felt kind of insecure in the subway. Always making sure nobody is going to pickpocket me or I don't look the wrong way at some guy looking for trouble. A friend of mine works there as security and after all the stories he told me I rather get in a car and deal with the traffic. And I'm saying this as someone who uses the subway to commute but in a safer city. I literally get in, close my eyes and open them after 20 minutes.
- yawaworht1978 5y ago
  Yes, the city has very unsafe places, IE Rival, cuidad vella. The amount of ambulance sirens and police presence speaks for itself. It feels less safe than London, I have lived in 3 not so good boroughs in London.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Those areas are not that unsafe. I often walk there, even at night. Though I do try to avoid them as the pickpockets tend to hang out there because they're so touristy. And the Ramblas area is very overrated anyway IMO. Barcelona is really not bad at all for violent crime :) There's some places that really are a bit unsafe but it's more out. Like La Mina, there's been some shootings there recently: https://www.lavanguardia.com/sucesos/20210908/7706383/tiroteo-la-mina-barcelona.html https://www.lavanguardia.com/sucesos/20210908/7706383/tirote... (Though technically that's not Barcelona anymore but Sant Adria de Besos)
    - inglor_cz 5y ago
      I visited a lot of Spanish cities. Santiago, Oviedo, Gijón, León, Valladolid, Madrid, Girona, Málaga, Sevilla, Cádiz, Cordoba, Granada and Barcelona so far. As far as the general sense of unease goes, Barcelona takes the first place. Some people there are outright creepy. I generally like the city, but I would not dare venture into the old centre's small alleys after dark. Also, pickpockets. All touristy places have them, but Barcelona, man... Shame, because the city is otherwise a jewel.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
> It's very bicycle friendly, own parts of the roads, unobstructed by cars Only in some streets. Many streets don't have cycle lanes. Or only in one direction, and it's not really clear where to find one in the direction you're going. It's a bit of maze trying to figure it out and in the end you just end up in between the cars.. The crossings aren't that safe either because turning traffic doesn't have their own green timeslot, they're supposed to turn when straight gets green but give way to crossing traffic. But drivers often don't check very well, I often see near misses. Coming from the Netherlands the bicycle lanes there are really much better with their dedicated green lights, lanes everywhere (almost always in both directions) and separate crossings. They're also better marked and uninterrupted (in some barcelona streets they suddenly just stop or move to another side without clear indication). I definitely don't feel safe cycling in Barcelona. I mainly walk here and take the metro. I hope the bicycle network will improve going forward as cars are excluded from the city more. They make a good effort so far but it's definitely not great :)
- mtekman 5y ago
  Cyclists are still given the stink eye in England if they even consider cycling on the pavement (I was once physically assaulted as a teen by a 'concerned citizen' for doing such a reckless thing), despite it being completely normal in other European cities. Before the bike lanes were common, you had to cut your teeth zipping between the cars in the narrow roads, keeping up with traffic speeds, annoying every driver who gave you an inch, terrifying bewildered tourists, and watching your face get smashed by door after door after door. When the cycle lanes were rolled out, things became much safer between bikes and cars, but now all bikes are herded together and you experience a bike lane traffic as Mr Expensive Latex seems to have no idea how to pull over to let others pass whilst he's busy clicking in his shoes. It's very safe now. I kind of miss the mad chaos London used to be when cycling, when only the dumb and the brave dared to battle the busses. When you'd get to work pumped with the adrenaline and the knowledge that you survived the journey
  - toyg 5y ago
    > I kind of miss the mad chaos London used to be when cycling, when only the dumb and the brave dared to battle the busses. That's a bit like soldiers missing the war period. You damn adrenaline junkies...
gfxgirl 5y ago
Visiting Barcelona it didn't seem remotely car "unfriendly". In fact the opposite, much of the city was a boring grid and lots of streets full of fast moving cars. It's seemed very far from the "ideals" of say this channel's opinions on cities designed to be "anti-car" https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A

agumonkey 5y ago

how did people react to reduction of cars ? in many places every step toward reduction of car use is met with a lot of rants if not anger.

908B64B197 5y ago
The problem is a bunch of place introduce traffic limitations or some congestion tax... But then do nothing else! You have to find an alternative for people to not take their car (closer grocery shop for instance). Meanwhile the money goes to some pension fund for underperforming, unionized municipal workers...
- agumonkey 5y ago
  I see, it's not smarter than here.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  But there's many supermarkets in the city! I have about 10 of them within 10 minutes walking. Several smaller ones within 1 minute.
qgadrian 5y ago
People who live in the city live it, people (specially rich people) who drives from outside the city hate it.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Yes I think one thing is kinda missing in this setup. The public transport in Barcelona is absolutely excellent. But there's no great way to get into it from the outside if you come by car. Most cities I know have Park & Ride facilities at the outskirts near ring roads. Barcelona doesn't seem to have these (though perhaps I'm missing them as I don't own a car). But I know my colleagues who come from outside are always struggling to find a parking spot, and they tell me there is no P&R.
  - jltsiren 5y ago
    That's a choice dense cities have to make. Is the city primarily a place where outsiders come to do business, or is it a place where its residents live? If the latter, then you don't want to make coming by car too easy, or you get too much traffic that makes the quality of life worse. Park & Ride is something that rarely makes economic sense. If you have a location with good public transport connections to the city, you probably want to build housing there. Alternate uses of the land – and parking in particular – are less valuable. Because people don't want to pay the market price for the land for parking, Park & Ride only works with heavy subsidies. The subsidies are usually implicit and implemented via zoning regulations, because taxpayers would revolt instantly against explicit subsidies.
    - toyg 5y ago
      I would argue Park & Ride just doesn't really work in most circumstances. As a commuter, you get twice the stress - a car trip (including the anxiety of leaving your vehicle in public places for extended periods) AND a public transport ride. It does work for tourists and other occasional visitors, but then the challenge is to make them aware it is an option when they plan the trip.

Darmody 5y ago

It has a good public transport system, yes, but ironically it's the only city where I felt kind of insecure in the subway. Always making sure nobody is going to pickpocket me or I don't look the wrong way at some guy looking for trouble. A friend of mine works there as security and after all the stories he told me I rather get in a car and deal with the traffic. And I'm saying this as someone who uses the subway to commute but in a safer city. I literally get in, close my eyes and open them after 20 minutes.

yawaworht1978 5y ago
Yes, the city has very unsafe places, IE Rival, cuidad vella. The amount of ambulance sirens and police presence speaks for itself. It feels less safe than London, I have lived in 3 not so good boroughs in London.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Those areas are not that unsafe. I often walk there, even at night. Though I do try to avoid them as the pickpockets tend to hang out there because they're so touristy. And the Ramblas area is very overrated anyway IMO. Barcelona is really not bad at all for violent crime :) There's some places that really are a bit unsafe but it's more out. Like La Mina, there's been some shootings there recently: https://www.lavanguardia.com/sucesos/20210908/7706383/tiroteo-la-mina-barcelona.html https://www.lavanguardia.com/sucesos/20210908/7706383/tirote... (Though technically that's not Barcelona anymore but Sant Adria de Besos)
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    I visited a lot of Spanish cities. Santiago, Oviedo, Gijón, León, Valladolid, Madrid, Girona, Málaga, Sevilla, Cádiz, Cordoba, Granada and Barcelona so far. As far as the general sense of unease goes, Barcelona takes the first place. Some people there are outright creepy. I generally like the city, but I would not dare venture into the old centre's small alleys after dark. Also, pickpockets. All touristy places have them, but Barcelona, man... Shame, because the city is otherwise a jewel.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

> It's very bicycle friendly, own parts of the roads, unobstructed by cars Only in some streets. Many streets don't have cycle lanes. Or only in one direction, and it's not really clear where to find one in the direction you're going. It's a bit of maze trying to figure it out and in the end you just end up in between the cars.. The crossings aren't that safe either because turning traffic doesn't have their own green timeslot, they're supposed to turn when straight gets green but give way to crossing traffic. But drivers often don't check very well, I often see near misses. Coming from the Netherlands the bicycle lanes there are really much better with their dedicated green lights, lanes everywhere (almost always in both directions) and separate crossings. They're also better marked and uninterrupted (in some barcelona streets they suddenly just stop or move to another side without clear indication). I definitely don't feel safe cycling in Barcelona. I mainly walk here and take the metro. I hope the bicycle network will improve going forward as cars are excluded from the city more. They make a good effort so far but it's definitely not great :)

mtekman 5y ago
Cyclists are still given the stink eye in England if they even consider cycling on the pavement (I was once physically assaulted as a teen by a 'concerned citizen' for doing such a reckless thing), despite it being completely normal in other European cities. Before the bike lanes were common, you had to cut your teeth zipping between the cars in the narrow roads, keeping up with traffic speeds, annoying every driver who gave you an inch, terrifying bewildered tourists, and watching your face get smashed by door after door after door. When the cycle lanes were rolled out, things became much safer between bikes and cars, but now all bikes are herded together and you experience a bike lane traffic as Mr Expensive Latex seems to have no idea how to pull over to let others pass whilst he's busy clicking in his shoes. It's very safe now. I kind of miss the mad chaos London used to be when cycling, when only the dumb and the brave dared to battle the busses. When you'd get to work pumped with the adrenaline and the knowledge that you survived the journey
- toyg 5y ago
  > I kind of miss the mad chaos London used to be when cycling, when only the dumb and the brave dared to battle the busses. That's a bit like soldiers missing the war period. You damn adrenaline junkies...

gfxgirl 5y ago

Visiting Barcelona it didn't seem remotely car "unfriendly". In fact the opposite, much of the city was a boring grid and lots of streets full of fast moving cars. It's seemed very far from the "ideals" of say this channel's opinions on cities designed to be "anti-car" https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A