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> This is wrong, please avoid making these accusations of bad faith, and please do not spread this misinformation about me. If you could stop being so rude and

> This is wrong, please avoid making these accusations of bad faith, and please do not spread this misinformation about me. If you could stop being so rude and insulting I could discuss this further with you. _It was you_ who started with "misinformation" even though it was _never_ the author's intent. > Wayland is not meant to sit at the layer of the stack you're thinking it is. You could be asking for all those features in something else, but that's a different project you'd be talking about and a different project you'd need to be criticizing, not Wayland. ISVs and game developers need stable APIs to base their applications on and no Linux library or middleware or whatever you want to call it provides it currently, Wayland or not. You seem to be nit-picky as hell without trying to remotely understand what the author wants and has in mind, and that is "write once and be able to run for decades". Here's the item you're opposed to and calling "misinformation": > Applications (or GUI toolkits) must implement their own font antialiasing - there's no API for setting system-wide font rendering. Most sane and advanced windowing systems work exactly this way - Windows, Android, Mac OS X. In Wayland all clients (read applications) are totally independent. Where the hell is misinformation exactly? Do graphical libraries for Wayland use common _shared_ APIs, interfaces and configuration to render fonts? Are those even standardized? Can I be sure that an application which doesn't use GTK/Qt/EFL will use my ~/.config/fontconfig ? No. That's the answer. OK, they currently all maybe use FreeType/Pango/Cairo/Skia/whatever, but will these libraries be there in 10 years time? Just 15 years ago _nothing_ in Linux used Pango. It was XFT. No bloody standards, no APIs to guarantee anything in the long term. Well, under Windows all Win32 applications render fonts exactly the same (let's not talk about UWP and other fancy crap) using your font antialiasing settings. BTW, right bloody now, in Fedora 35, GTK, Qt applications and web browsers all render fonts differently. I can upload screenshots for you to see. So much for "misinformation". Oh, God. OK, let let's call this article which, every time it shows up, gathers hundreds of comments "a load of absolute bullcrap/misinformation" (which you're so fond of) and Linux is perfect. If you really want to be technical and factual, approach what article says from the same PoV, not "I will _interpret_ this and that this way based on the _status quo_ and call it misinformation". Good luck and have fun calling everything you disagree with (even though it's not technically false) "misinformation". BTW, you've used "disagree" quite a lot but still call everything "misinformation. Make up your mind already. Either something is dead wrong or not. First you made it abundantly clear that it's _all wrong/false_ and now you're "disagreeing". Lastly there are 12 items (!) under Wayland, one which you disagree with, yet the whole article is disinformation. OMFG. This certainly invalidates everything. Sorry, you've rattled me too much to continue.

md8z 5y ago
"_It was you_ who started with "misinformation" even though it was _never_ the author's intent." I am not saying it is your intent, most people who get things wrong are not intending to do so. It still however can be misinformation. I think you are confusing terms, the word "disinformation" is what usually refers to intentional false information. I'm not saying you're spreading disinformation and I'm not criticizing you as a person. My issue is with the words that are written in the article. Please avoid taking criticism of your work personally, I'm sure you are a good and beautiful person. "ISVs and game developers need stable APIs to base their applications on and no Linux library or middleware or whatever you want to call it provides it currently" I agree, this is the real problem and you could just state that. It has nothing to do with X or Wayland or whatever. "what the author wants and has in mind, and that is 'write once and be able to run for decades'" Actually I do understand this, and I feel the article doesn't communicate it well, I wish you would be clearer about what problems you're having here with shipping apps like this. The criticism of all kind of unrelated things is distracting, just mention what you're trying to run that isn't working. "Do graphical libraries for Wayland use common _shared_ APIs, interfaces and configuration to render fonts? Are those even standardized?" The answer to all of those is yes, they use freetype. "Can I be sure that an application which doesn't use GTK/Qt/EFL will use my ~/.config/fontconfig ? No." I'm really not sure what you're asking for here, if the app opts out of the standard then of course it won't work. You can also implement your own font rendering on Windows/MacOS and opt out of the standard there too. There is absolutely nothing X or Wayland or Mac or Windows or anything can do if an app decides they are going to implement their own font rendering library. And I assume you're talking about games here, those are a great example of something that intentionally doesn't follow the system settings on any platform. "OK, they currently all maybe use FreeType/Pango/Cairo/Skia/whatever, but will these libraries be there in 10 years time?" Well yes, the code will probably still be around, I think github has archived all this stuff for 1000 years or something like that. "Just 15 years ago _nothing_ in Linux used Pango. It was XFT. No bloody standards, no APIs to guarantee anything in the long term." I have no idea what you mean, you can still use Xft. Pango has more features however so you'll have to upgrade if you want those. That's generally how it works, new APIs get new features, the old APIs stay the same and remain stable. "Well, under Windows all Win32 applications render fonts exactly the same (let's not talk about UWP and other fancy crap) using your font antialiasing settings." I don't understand why you are saying disregard UWP, that would be a demonstration of the same problem! "gathers hundreds of comments 'a load of absolute bullcrap/misinformation' (which you're so fond of) and Linux is perfect." Linux isn't perfect, I've said repeatedly that it's heavily flawed. "Good luck and have fun calling everything you disagree with (even though it's not technically false) "misinformation". BTW, you've used 'disagree' quite a lot but still call everything "misinformation. Make up your mind already. Either something is dead wrong or not. First you made it abundantly clear that it's _all wrong/false_ and now you're 'disagreeing'. Sorry, you've rattled me too much to continue. " Please avoid this kind of combative comment. I've said I agree with you in subjective matters in what constitutes being "good" or "bad" and what we think needs to happen. In matters of the facts of what the software actually is doing right now, that's where we need to worry about facts and misinformation. You owe it to your readers to be as accurate as possible if you want to have a positive effect. Also I apologize if you feel rattled, it's not my intent to upset you, my intent is to get the facts corrected.

md8z 5y ago

"_It was you_ who started with "misinformation" even though it was _never_ the author's intent." I am not saying it is your intent, most people who get things wrong are not intending to do so. It still however can be misinformation. I think you are confusing terms, the word "disinformation" is what usually refers to intentional false information. I'm not saying you're spreading disinformation and I'm not criticizing you as a person. My issue is with the words that are written in the article. Please avoid taking criticism of your work personally, I'm sure you are a good and beautiful person. "ISVs and game developers need stable APIs to base their applications on and no Linux library or middleware or whatever you want to call it provides it currently" I agree, this is the real problem and you could just state that. It has nothing to do with X or Wayland or whatever. "what the author wants and has in mind, and that is 'write once and be able to run for decades'" Actually I do understand this, and I feel the article doesn't communicate it well, I wish you would be clearer about what problems you're having here with shipping apps like this. The criticism of all kind of unrelated things is distracting, just mention what you're trying to run that isn't working. "Do graphical libraries for Wayland use common _shared_ APIs, interfaces and configuration to render fonts? Are those even standardized?" The answer to all of those is yes, they use freetype. "Can I be sure that an application which doesn't use GTK/Qt/EFL will use my ~/.config/fontconfig ? No." I'm really not sure what you're asking for here, if the app opts out of the standard then of course it won't work. You can also implement your own font rendering on Windows/MacOS and opt out of the standard there too. There is absolutely nothing X or Wayland or Mac or Windows or anything can do if an app decides they are going to implement their own font rendering library. And I assume you're talking about games here, those are a great example of something that intentionally doesn't follow the system settings on any platform. "OK, they currently all maybe use FreeType/Pango/Cairo/Skia/whatever, but will these libraries be there in 10 years time?" Well yes, the code will probably still be around, I think github has archived all this stuff for 1000 years or something like that. "Just 15 years ago _nothing_ in Linux used Pango. It was XFT. No bloody standards, no APIs to guarantee anything in the long term." I have no idea what you mean, you can still use Xft. Pango has more features however so you'll have to upgrade if you want those. That's generally how it works, new APIs get new features, the old APIs stay the same and remain stable. "Well, under Windows all Win32 applications render fonts exactly the same (let's not talk about UWP and other fancy crap) using your font antialiasing settings." I don't understand why you are saying disregard UWP, that would be a demonstration of the same problem! "gathers hundreds of comments 'a load of absolute bullcrap/misinformation' (which you're so fond of) and Linux is perfect." Linux isn't perfect, I've said repeatedly that it's heavily flawed. "Good luck and have fun calling everything you disagree with (even though it's not technically false) "misinformation". BTW, you've used 'disagree' quite a lot but still call everything "misinformation. Make up your mind already. Either something is dead wrong or not. First you made it abundantly clear that it's _all wrong/false_ and now you're 'disagreeing'. Sorry, you've rattled me too much to continue. " Please avoid this kind of combative comment. I've said I agree with you in subjective matters in what constitutes being "good" or "bad" and what we think needs to happen. In matters of the facts of what the software actually is doing right now, that's where we need to worry about facts and misinformation. You owe it to your readers to be as accurate as possible if you want to have a positive effect. Also I apologize if you feel rattled, it's not my intent to upset you, my intent is to get the facts corrected.