4 ms·

Interesting. I wonder how you square that with results from "are you happy?" surveys comparing the religious and irreligious.

by causi 5y ago

xabotage 5y ago
Survivorship bias. Especially for high-demand religions, answering "no" means admitting the church you make so many sacrifices for does absolutely nothing. This leaves those who are either too afraid to confront the cognitive dissonance or who were already happy in the first place.
- azinman2 5y ago
  Where do you get the premise of religion being a happier life?
  - xabotage 5y ago
    I never said it was, I'm not sure why you think I did.
    - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
      Your answer of "survivorship bias" hints that you are assuming the parent's "are you happy" is a yes. Assuming for argument's sake, that is.
      - xabotage 5y ago
        The post title implies religiosity != happiness, the parent implied other results might differ, my comment was a response to that possibility, for the sake of argument as you said.
  - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
    For most faithful, the answer would be 'experience'. People happy in their faith tend to stay. Those who aren't tend to leave eventually.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  > Especially for high-demand religions, answering "no" means admitting the church you make so many sacrifices for does absolutely nothing. I think there's a chasm or 10 between declining a responsibility and denouncing your faith.
dash2 5y ago
Reverse causality or unobserved confounds. Maybe happy people are more likely to become or stay religious. Maybe living in an area with strong community makes you happier and you also get dragged along to church (but the two do not influence each other).
onion2k 5y ago
Believing you are happy and actually being happy are different things. Religious people believe that they're happier than other people, but they're not.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  link? is that in the study?
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  >Believing you are happy and actually being happy are different things Even if that were true, the two likely wouldn't be distinguishable in any meaningful way.
  - onion2k 5y ago
    Yes they would. If you ask people if they're happy they'll say yes. If you actually measure it by observing what people do they'll exhibit behavior that shows they're not actually happy. Self-delusion is a well researched topic. There are many studies.
    - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
      > If you actually measure it by observing what people do they'll exhibit behavior that shows they're not actually happy. The best part of this notion is the inverse where miserable people are doing happy people things.
      - sammalloy 5y ago
        > The best part of this notion is the inverse where miserable people are doing happy people thing Sartre called it “bad faith”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith_(existentialism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith_(existentialism) I know a lot of religious people like this. On the outside, they seem like the happiest people you’ve ever met, but once you get to know them, it turns out that they are miserable, and that the religious beliefs and behavior that they embrace are used to self-regulate their mental states. The more extreme religious people appear to be suffering a type of scrupulosity unique to disorders like OCD, and many sufferers will tell you that they are not happy.

Interesting. I wonder how you square that with results from "are you happy?" surveys comparing the religious and irreligious.

by causi 5y ago

Interesting. I wonder how you square that with results from "are you happy?" surveys comparing the religious and irreligious.

xabotage 5y ago

Survivorship bias. Especially for high-demand religions, answering "no" means admitting the church you make so many sacrifices for does absolutely nothing. This leaves those who are either too afraid to confront the cognitive dissonance or who were already happy in the first place.

azinman2 5y ago
Where do you get the premise of religion being a happier life?
- xabotage 5y ago
  I never said it was, I'm not sure why you think I did.
  - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
    Your answer of "survivorship bias" hints that you are assuming the parent's "are you happy" is a yes. Assuming for argument's sake, that is.
    - xabotage 5y ago
      The post title implies religiosity != happiness, the parent implied other results might differ, my comment was a response to that possibility, for the sake of argument as you said.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  For most faithful, the answer would be 'experience'. People happy in their faith tend to stay. Those who aren't tend to leave eventually.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
> Especially for high-demand religions, answering "no" means admitting the church you make so many sacrifices for does absolutely nothing. I think there's a chasm or 10 between declining a responsibility and denouncing your faith.

dash2 5y ago

Reverse causality or unobserved confounds. Maybe happy people are more likely to become or stay religious. Maybe living in an area with strong community makes you happier and you also get dragged along to church (but the two do not influence each other).

onion2k 5y ago

Believing you are happy and actually being happy are different things. Religious people believe that they're happier than other people, but they're not.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
inter_netuser 5y ago
link? is that in the study?
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
>Believing you are happy and actually being happy are different things Even if that were true, the two likely wouldn't be distinguishable in any meaningful way.
- onion2k 5y ago
  Yes they would. If you ask people if they're happy they'll say yes. If you actually measure it by observing what people do they'll exhibit behavior that shows they're not actually happy. Self-delusion is a well researched topic. There are many studies.
  - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
    > If you actually measure it by observing what people do they'll exhibit behavior that shows they're not actually happy. The best part of this notion is the inverse where miserable people are doing happy people things.
    - sammalloy 5y ago
      > The best part of this notion is the inverse where miserable people are doing happy people thing Sartre called it “bad faith”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith_(existentialism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith_(existentialism) I know a lot of religious people like this. On the outside, they seem like the happiest people you’ve ever met, but once you get to know them, it turns out that they are miserable, and that the religious beliefs and behavior that they embrace are used to self-regulate their mental states. The more extreme religious people appear to be suffering a type of scrupulosity unique to disorders like OCD, and many sufferers will tell you that they are not happy.