4 ms·

Some form of zoning must exist because you don't want people living next to an incinerator power plant for instance, but like any good thing, it can be taken to

by Asooka 5y ago

Some form of zoning must exist because you don't want people living next to an incinerator power plant for instance, but like any good thing, it can be taken to an extreme and micromanaged into evil.

burlesona 5y ago
That’s not really true. It’s perfectly possible to directly regulate, prohibit and/or tax nuisances and externalities directly without zoning.
- downut 5y ago
  But the key is who regulates, prohibits, etc. If that power is local, NIMBY always wins. These decisions must be made at the state level. Cities are way too fractured into myriad municipalities competing for jobs and "quality" housing.
  - 8note 5y ago
    The power is with rich locals. I'd assume state power is with the same rich folks, so it's still NIMBY, but the state can force it on poor locals. Woooo
- b112 5y ago
  If you tax unequally, depending upon location, then that's just zoning with another name, except the rich can ignore it.
- cracell 5y ago
  Ok. So basically zoning but pretending it's not called zoning.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    No, since this alternative allows for an apartment building with a couple of shops on the ground floor (normal in most of the world), and any other reasonable mixed development. No one is suggesting heavy industry should be allowed in a residential area.
    - seoaeu 5y ago
      A set of local laws that says "heavy industry isn't allowed in residential areas" is a zoning code
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        It's a planning / permitting code, but the distinction from a zoning code has already been discussed in this thread.
        seoaeu 5y ago
        And to quote one of the other commenters in that other part of the thread: "That’s zoning with a different name."
  - burlesona 5y ago
    Zoning means central planners literally draw a map saying what goes where, and generally make all kinds of aesthetic decisions to go along with it. There is a big gap between that level of micromanaging land use and regulating against nuisances.
mlindner 5y ago
Why? If people choose to live next to the incinerator that's their choice. You can also have "industrial only" zones for stuff that's pollution emitting, but most things don't need that zoning. Example Japan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfm2xCKOCNk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfm2xCKOCNk

by Asooka 5y ago

Some form of zoning must exist because you don't want people living next to an incinerator power plant for instance, but like any good thing, it can be taken to an extreme and micromanaged into evil.

burlesona 5y ago

That’s not really true. It’s perfectly possible to directly regulate, prohibit and/or tax nuisances and externalities directly without zoning.

downut 5y ago
But the key is who regulates, prohibits, etc. If that power is local, NIMBY always wins. These decisions must be made at the state level. Cities are way too fractured into myriad municipalities competing for jobs and "quality" housing.
- 8note 5y ago
  The power is with rich locals. I'd assume state power is with the same rich folks, so it's still NIMBY, but the state can force it on poor locals. Woooo
b112 5y ago
If you tax unequally, depending upon location, then that's just zoning with another name, except the rich can ignore it.
cracell 5y ago
Ok. So basically zoning but pretending it's not called zoning.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  No, since this alternative allows for an apartment building with a couple of shops on the ground floor (normal in most of the world), and any other reasonable mixed development. No one is suggesting heavy industry should be allowed in a residential area.
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    A set of local laws that says "heavy industry isn't allowed in residential areas" is a zoning code
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      It's a planning / permitting code, but the distinction from a zoning code has already been discussed in this thread.
      - seoaeu 5y ago
        And to quote one of the other commenters in that other part of the thread: "That’s zoning with a different name."
- burlesona 5y ago
  Zoning means central planners literally draw a map saying what goes where, and generally make all kinds of aesthetic decisions to go along with it. There is a big gap between that level of micromanaging land use and regulating against nuisances.

mlindner 5y ago

Why? If people choose to live next to the incinerator that's their choice. You can also have "industrial only" zones for stuff that's pollution emitting, but most things don't need that zoning. Example Japan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfm2xCKOCNk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfm2xCKOCNk