7 ms·

If true, it's extremely depressing that it required a viral post on social media.

by csee 5y ago

TameAntelope 5y ago
How is crisis management supposed to go? What would have been a preferable source of this change?
- csee 5y ago
  If it was a high leverage decision, you would have hoped one of the officials appointed to fix the situation would have already noticed and fixed it. So either they are completely incompetent or the decision didn't matter much.
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    Ideally, yes. But that assumes people are looking into the right places at the right time, with the knowledge to understand what they are looking at. That’s a pretty tall order for any large system.
    - csee 5y ago
      If the POTUS personally commits to resolving the issue, it is concerning that an outsider can literally sail through and identify a high leverage solution. Like what the hell is going on with our institutions. There might be an explanation but it looks really bad from the outside.
      - TameAntelope 5y ago
        Do you know who Ryan Peterson is? He's not an "outsider", he is the CEO of a digital supply chain company. He's a "foremost expert", to be sure.
        csee 5y ago
        A large team under POTUS has been working on this for two weeks and the Flexport CEO can sail through and come up with this within 24 hours of doing that? That's embarrassing and concerning. EDIT yes he's not an outsider to the industry, I mean he's an outsider to the group of officials who were tasked with solving this problem.
        TameAntelope 5y ago
        If you believe that A) you can't have literally everyone in the industry on POTUS's team and B) private industry often has some of the best expertise, I'm not sure I understand why you would be upset about this outcome.
        OnlineGladiator 5y ago
        He's upset that the government is (seemingly) incompetent. Defending their incompetence does not change the fact that they were incompetent as someone was so easily able to propose a solution while we have little reason to believe the government had a plan. It doesn't matter if that someone is the world's foremost expert (he's not, by the way) - what good is the government if they can't solve problems they're in charge of fixing?
        csee 5y ago
        I would be sympathetic to that if this fix was something highly complicated or requiring significant expertise to come up with. Then I could understand this oversight. And perhaps that's the case here, and it's just my ignorance speaking, but "relax stifling zoning restrictions to immediately double capacity" doesn't seem like it fits into that category of things.
        TameAntelope 5y ago
        Think of it like a designer giving you a design in 5 minutes. It wasn't the time it took to do the thing that was important, it was the thousands of hours of training that allowed the design to only take 5 minutes. Ryan Peterson has been doing this for a long time at a high level, it's very hard to get someone like him into civil service.
      - cowsandmilk 5y ago
        Is there any evidence this is a high leverage solution. Right now, it is an idea being tried. We dont have the results…
  - Misdicorl 5y ago
    > So either they are completely incompetent or the decision didn't matter much. Or the field always wins. Every year a large team of highly paid professionals is responsible for selecting the best professional sports prospects to join their team. The team that goes first (almost) never gets the best player. Its not because they're incompetent. And its not because the decision doesn't matter- these are multi billion dollar organizations, and the decision is very much a high leverage one that will directly impact their fortunes. Sometimes finding the best path is extremely difficult. Sometimes even when someone does see the best path, its still hard to recognize it as such. So I don't think its surprising at all for the best idea to come from outside a team devoted to solving a problem. Especially in today's age when more people than ever can propose solutions and more people than ever can see those proposals and bubble up the ones that sound good to them.
    - slv77 5y ago
      Or there are one or more groups with hidden agendas that profit from the failure of the system.
  - BurningFrog 5y ago
    > one of the officials appointed to fix the situation Genuine question: Are there actual officials appointed to fix the situation? If so, who are they?
    - jimmygrapes 5y ago
      At the highest level, Pete Buttigieg as the DOT Secretary. Unfortunately his qualifications for the role are... not great... https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/12/16/947149650/hailing-his-new-voice-biden-introduces-transportation-choice-buttigieg https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/1...
      - BurningFrog 5y ago
        Buttigieg is broadly responsible for this sector on a national federal level. My question is if anyone is specifically working to solve the current acute port clogging situation, ideally someone who has authority to implement solutions.
- notatoad 5y ago
  At the very simplest, the CEO of a large shipping company should have better contacts to suggest these things to than posting them to the world on twitter and hoping the tweet goes viral enough that somebody in charge notices. Somebody in the mayor's office should have been getting in contact with people at the major shipping companies, asking for suggestions like this, rather than waiting until a twitter thread got viral enough to embarass them into taking action.
kayodelycaon 5y ago
Or maybe it’s a success of social media? If we didn’t have social media cutting across the usual lines of communication, this problem may not have gotten fixed because no one had both the right information and the ability to act in it.
- curiousgal 5y ago
  One could argue that if we didn't have social media there wouldn't have been a supply chain crisis. Not drawing a direct causality link, more of a butterfly effect type.
- rektide 5y ago
  indeed. society often has trouble reaching for good. that these democratic open communication means allowed sense to unjam & flow was awesome. an unstrucutred, unplanned, unpredicted ability to grasp at success. reciprocally, i do want to acknowledge that access is still lolsided. if this was a random jie or nancy it would have taken pretty extreme circumstances to get their accurate & powerful suggestion raised & having an impact. there's a lot of interesting examples in history of suggestion boxes for governance. this one isnt perfect but it still stands, to me, as an interesting positive example.
ch4s3 5y ago
I can see why you might see it that way, but I'd very much prefer an outside perspective being able to bubble up and present a solution rather than ma alternatives. This is certainly better than the way governments in the US usually try to use consultants to find inefficiencies.
poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
It is is depressing, that clear and obvious solutions were missing at economy-critical supply chain infra. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. But also it's 2021 where people are the most cynical we've ever been, it's almost like there's interest groups in the US that want a fanning of inflation or delayed recovery through shortages.
- jayd16 5y ago
  What's clear and obvious about temporarily suspending rules that were presumably in place for a reason? Seems more like a non-obvius value call was made.
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    The “reason” is that stacked containers spoil resident views, just to put it in perspective.
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    It's clear and obvious that in a crisis, one questions all of the possible causes of the problems, and evaluates all possible solutions available.
- intricatedetail 5y ago
  > Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. It could be both e.g. foreign actor using administration's stupidity to probe country's weak points. It seems like the US is probed from all angles.
  - poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
    Probing or partnering? The US is wide open for business, and foreign actors certainly invest billions buying influence in US politics.
Factorium 5y ago
I think 'we' (as in high-intelligence individual technical people) need to be more vocal on social media. Look at the effect that small vocal minorities have on politicians and the media... The problem is that technical people are usually too busy working or raising a family to frequent those channels. Unemployed or childless activists however have plenty of time for their causes. The 'vocal minority'.

If true, it's extremely depressing that it required a viral post on social media.

by csee 5y ago

If true, it's extremely depressing that it required a viral post on social media.

TameAntelope 5y ago

How is crisis management supposed to go? What would have been a preferable source of this change?

csee 5y ago
If it was a high leverage decision, you would have hoped one of the officials appointed to fix the situation would have already noticed and fixed it. So either they are completely incompetent or the decision didn't matter much.
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  Ideally, yes. But that assumes people are looking into the right places at the right time, with the knowledge to understand what they are looking at. That’s a pretty tall order for any large system.
  - csee 5y ago
    If the POTUS personally commits to resolving the issue, it is concerning that an outsider can literally sail through and identify a high leverage solution. Like what the hell is going on with our institutions. There might be an explanation but it looks really bad from the outside.
    - TameAntelope 5y ago
      Do you know who Ryan Peterson is? He's not an "outsider", he is the CEO of a digital supply chain company. He's a "foremost expert", to be sure.
      - csee 5y ago
        A large team under POTUS has been working on this for two weeks and the Flexport CEO can sail through and come up with this within 24 hours of doing that? That's embarrassing and concerning. EDIT yes he's not an outsider to the industry, I mean he's an outsider to the group of officials who were tasked with solving this problem.
        TameAntelope 5y ago
        If you believe that A) you can't have literally everyone in the industry on POTUS's team and B) private industry often has some of the best expertise, I'm not sure I understand why you would be upset about this outcome.
        OnlineGladiator 5y ago
        He's upset that the government is (seemingly) incompetent. Defending their incompetence does not change the fact that they were incompetent as someone was so easily able to propose a solution while we have little reason to believe the government had a plan. It doesn't matter if that someone is the world's foremost expert (he's not, by the way) - what good is the government if they can't solve problems they're in charge of fixing?
        csee 5y ago
        I would be sympathetic to that if this fix was something highly complicated or requiring significant expertise to come up with. Then I could understand this oversight. And perhaps that's the case here, and it's just my ignorance speaking, but "relax stifling zoning restrictions to immediately double capacity" doesn't seem like it fits into that category of things.
        TameAntelope 5y ago
        Think of it like a designer giving you a design in 5 minutes. It wasn't the time it took to do the thing that was important, it was the thousands of hours of training that allowed the design to only take 5 minutes. Ryan Peterson has been doing this for a long time at a high level, it's very hard to get someone like him into civil service.
    - cowsandmilk 5y ago
      Is there any evidence this is a high leverage solution. Right now, it is an idea being tried. We dont have the results…
- Misdicorl 5y ago
  > So either they are completely incompetent or the decision didn't matter much. Or the field always wins. Every year a large team of highly paid professionals is responsible for selecting the best professional sports prospects to join their team. The team that goes first (almost) never gets the best player. Its not because they're incompetent. And its not because the decision doesn't matter- these are multi billion dollar organizations, and the decision is very much a high leverage one that will directly impact their fortunes. Sometimes finding the best path is extremely difficult. Sometimes even when someone does see the best path, its still hard to recognize it as such. So I don't think its surprising at all for the best idea to come from outside a team devoted to solving a problem. Especially in today's age when more people than ever can propose solutions and more people than ever can see those proposals and bubble up the ones that sound good to them.
  - slv77 5y ago
    Or there are one or more groups with hidden agendas that profit from the failure of the system.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  > one of the officials appointed to fix the situation Genuine question: Are there actual officials appointed to fix the situation? If so, who are they?
  - jimmygrapes 5y ago
    At the highest level, Pete Buttigieg as the DOT Secretary. Unfortunately his qualifications for the role are... not great... https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/12/16/947149650/hailing-his-new-voice-biden-introduces-transportation-choice-buttigieg https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/1...
    - BurningFrog 5y ago
      Buttigieg is broadly responsible for this sector on a national federal level. My question is if anyone is specifically working to solve the current acute port clogging situation, ideally someone who has authority to implement solutions.
notatoad 5y ago
At the very simplest, the CEO of a large shipping company should have better contacts to suggest these things to than posting them to the world on twitter and hoping the tweet goes viral enough that somebody in charge notices. Somebody in the mayor's office should have been getting in contact with people at the major shipping companies, asking for suggestions like this, rather than waiting until a twitter thread got viral enough to embarass them into taking action.

kayodelycaon 5y ago

Or maybe it’s a success of social media? If we didn’t have social media cutting across the usual lines of communication, this problem may not have gotten fixed because no one had both the right information and the ability to act in it.

curiousgal 5y ago
One could argue that if we didn't have social media there wouldn't have been a supply chain crisis. Not drawing a direct causality link, more of a butterfly effect type.
rektide 5y ago
indeed. society often has trouble reaching for good. that these democratic open communication means allowed sense to unjam & flow was awesome. an unstrucutred, unplanned, unpredicted ability to grasp at success. reciprocally, i do want to acknowledge that access is still lolsided. if this was a random jie or nancy it would have taken pretty extreme circumstances to get their accurate & powerful suggestion raised & having an impact. there's a lot of interesting examples in history of suggestion boxes for governance. this one isnt perfect but it still stands, to me, as an interesting positive example.

ch4s3 5y ago

I can see why you might see it that way, but I'd very much prefer an outside perspective being able to bubble up and present a solution rather than ma alternatives. This is certainly better than the way governments in the US usually try to use consultants to find inefficiencies.

poorjohnmacafee 5y ago

It is is depressing, that clear and obvious solutions were missing at economy-critical supply chain infra. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. But also it's 2021 where people are the most cynical we've ever been, it's almost like there's interest groups in the US that want a fanning of inflation or delayed recovery through shortages.

jayd16 5y ago
What's clear and obvious about temporarily suspending rules that were presumably in place for a reason? Seems more like a non-obvius value call was made.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  The “reason” is that stacked containers spoil resident views, just to put it in perspective.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  It's clear and obvious that in a crisis, one questions all of the possible causes of the problems, and evaluates all possible solutions available.
intricatedetail 5y ago
> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. It could be both e.g. foreign actor using administration's stupidity to probe country's weak points. It seems like the US is probed from all angles.
- poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
  Probing or partnering? The US is wide open for business, and foreign actors certainly invest billions buying influence in US politics.

Factorium 5y ago

I think 'we' (as in high-intelligence individual technical people) need to be more vocal on social media. Look at the effect that small vocal minorities have on politicians and the media... The problem is that technical people are usually too busy working or raising a family to frequent those channels. Unemployed or childless activists however have plenty of time for their causes. The 'vocal minority'.