4 ms·

> 4. Baldwin was told he had a "cold gun", which was clearly wrong. This had happened earlier on the set, and nothing was done to correct the problem. That mak

by patrec 5y ago

> 4. Baldwin was told he had a "cold gun", which was clearly wrong. This had happened earlier on the set, and nothing was done to correct the problem. That makes it sound like Baldwin was a victim of others' negligence. But he's not just an actor but the producer, so the buck for repeated safety violations stops with him.

causi 5y ago
Also, anyone handling a gun, even a prop gun, should be aware of and follow the rules of gun safety. The fact Baldwin didn't check the weapon himself is an enormous act of negligence on his part. You don't just take someone's word for whether or not a weapon is dangerous, ever. Nobody ignorant of weapons safety should even be in the same damn room as a gun. I don't blame Baldwin personally, but whomever is responsible for fostering an on-set culture and policy that would ever allow this to happen deserves to be in prison.
- suzzer99 5y ago
  How is an actor supposed to know the difference between a blank and a dummy round on a specially modified prop gun? That's what the licensed armorer is for. Asking actors to have any responsibility to suss that stuff out seems like a recipe for disaster.
  - causi 5y ago
    Blanks and dummy rounds do not look similar. If your job involves handling functional guns maybe you should take five minutes to learn the difference. If you're putting guns in peoples' hands you should make sure they know how to take three seconds to check if they're about to murder someone. It's about layers of safety.
  - zeteo 5y ago
    The gun was supposed to have all empty chambers.
    - mgarfias 5y ago
      So? You still treat it as if it were live.
      - causi 5y ago
        I believe it was his point that even someone who can't tell a blank from a dummy from a live round can tell whether or not there's something in the gun.
    - itbeho 5y ago
      If that were indeed the case, then Baldwin could have determined it was actually loaded easily with just a few seconds of inspection after having been handed the firearm. Most actors receive training with firearms so they can handle and fire them convincingly on set. Baldwin has made a several films where he handled firearms, so I'm certain he's had safety training at points in his career. Taking someone's word for it being a "cold gun" is irresponsible.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > How is an actor supposed to know the difference between a blank and a dummy round on a specially modified prop gun? Dummy rounds are generally visually similar to live rounds (not blanks, which apparently are referred to as “live rounds” in film), so a readily distinguishable from blanks.
suzzer99 5y ago
Absolutely. He bears responsibility for the shoddy safety protocols.
berberous 5y ago
He was “a” producer. If he had actually decision making responsibility, I agree with you, but it sounds like he may have just been an actor who was given a producing credit as partial payment for taking a lower salary, and not someone with any actual involvement in the production decisions. A producer in name only, which I understand is common in the business.
- eternalban 5y ago
  That's not correct. "Alec Baldwin is producing and starring in the independent Western action movie “Rust” with Joel Souza directing from his own script, based on a story by Souza and Baldwin." ... "Highland Film Group will launch international sales at the upcoming Marché du Film Online, which launches on June 22. CAA Media Finance is handling the domestic rights, and BondIt Media Capital is financing. "Baldwin is producing through his El Dorado Pictures banner alongside Anjul Nigam and executive producer Matthew Helderman. Baldwin and Nigam produced Souza’s “Crown Vic.” Anna Granucci is also producing with Elizabeth L. Barbatelli as an executive producer." source: https://variety.com/2020/film/markets-festivals/alec-baldwin-western-rust-1234620085/ https://variety.com/2020/film/markets-festivals/alec-baldwin...
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    That could all still just be labels. I worked with a former (presumably) credited film producer. They produced schedules, not decisions.
    - eternalban 5y ago
      It says quite clearly that Alec Baldwin and Joel Souza are following up with a second production together, filming a script written by Baldwin -- ironically about an accidental shooting -- financed by some other group and likely executed by others. So the speculation that "it sounds like he may have just been an actor who was given a producing credit as partial payment for taking a lower salary" that I commented on is clearly not correct. As to the "decisions", I'm sure he didn't sit down and sweat the operational details ("decisions"), where to get film, etc. But for decisions such as "who'll be the DP?", "we'll shoot in Santa Fe because it allows for non-union crew", or minimally chiming in on the production crisis and crew accommodations issue, are you seriously claiming Alec Baldwin was just hanging out chit chatting with the crew and was not involved at all? He's not some airhead pretty face, he's a business man as well and he is making a film with partners.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> But he's not just an actor but the producer Rust has (currently) 5 credited executive producers, 6 producers, and a co-producer. Even if Baldwin’s producer credit reflects an actual responsible role and not a producer credit in lieu of additional pay, no one not involved in the production can say from the credits alone that Baldwin had any responsibility over the actions that led to the incident, beyond that which he had as an actor (which is not none, to be clear.)

by patrec 5y ago

causi 5y ago

Also, anyone handling a gun, even a prop gun, should be aware of and follow the rules of gun safety. The fact Baldwin didn't check the weapon himself is an enormous act of negligence on his part. You don't just take someone's word for whether or not a weapon is dangerous, ever. Nobody ignorant of weapons safety should even be in the same damn room as a gun. I don't blame Baldwin personally, but whomever is responsible for fostering an on-set culture and policy that would ever allow this to happen deserves to be in prison.

suzzer99 5y ago
How is an actor supposed to know the difference between a blank and a dummy round on a specially modified prop gun? That's what the licensed armorer is for. Asking actors to have any responsibility to suss that stuff out seems like a recipe for disaster.
- causi 5y ago
  Blanks and dummy rounds do not look similar. If your job involves handling functional guns maybe you should take five minutes to learn the difference. If you're putting guns in peoples' hands you should make sure they know how to take three seconds to check if they're about to murder someone. It's about layers of safety.
- zeteo 5y ago
  The gun was supposed to have all empty chambers.
  - mgarfias 5y ago
    So? You still treat it as if it were live.
    - causi 5y ago
      I believe it was his point that even someone who can't tell a blank from a dummy from a live round can tell whether or not there's something in the gun.
  - itbeho 5y ago
    If that were indeed the case, then Baldwin could have determined it was actually loaded easily with just a few seconds of inspection after having been handed the firearm. Most actors receive training with firearms so they can handle and fire them convincingly on set. Baldwin has made a several films where he handled firearms, so I'm certain he's had safety training at points in his career. Taking someone's word for it being a "cold gun" is irresponsible.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > How is an actor supposed to know the difference between a blank and a dummy round on a specially modified prop gun? Dummy rounds are generally visually similar to live rounds (not blanks, which apparently are referred to as “live rounds” in film), so a readily distinguishable from blanks.

suzzer99 5y ago

Absolutely. He bears responsibility for the shoddy safety protocols.

berberous 5y ago

He was “a” producer. If he had actually decision making responsibility, I agree with you, but it sounds like he may have just been an actor who was given a producing credit as partial payment for taking a lower salary, and not someone with any actual involvement in the production decisions. A producer in name only, which I understand is common in the business.

eternalban 5y ago
That's not correct. "Alec Baldwin is producing and starring in the independent Western action movie “Rust” with Joel Souza directing from his own script, based on a story by Souza and Baldwin." ... "Highland Film Group will launch international sales at the upcoming Marché du Film Online, which launches on June 22. CAA Media Finance is handling the domestic rights, and BondIt Media Capital is financing. "Baldwin is producing through his El Dorado Pictures banner alongside Anjul Nigam and executive producer Matthew Helderman. Baldwin and Nigam produced Souza’s “Crown Vic.” Anna Granucci is also producing with Elizabeth L. Barbatelli as an executive producer." source: https://variety.com/2020/film/markets-festivals/alec-baldwin-western-rust-1234620085/ https://variety.com/2020/film/markets-festivals/alec-baldwin...
- nitrogen 5y ago
  That could all still just be labels. I worked with a former (presumably) credited film producer. They produced schedules, not decisions.
  - eternalban 5y ago
    It says quite clearly that Alec Baldwin and Joel Souza are following up with a second production together, filming a script written by Baldwin -- ironically about an accidental shooting -- financed by some other group and likely executed by others. So the speculation that "it sounds like he may have just been an actor who was given a producing credit as partial payment for taking a lower salary" that I commented on is clearly not correct. As to the "decisions", I'm sure he didn't sit down and sweat the operational details ("decisions"), where to get film, etc. But for decisions such as "who'll be the DP?", "we'll shoot in Santa Fe because it allows for non-union crew", or minimally chiming in on the production crisis and crew accommodations issue, are you seriously claiming Alec Baldwin was just hanging out chit chatting with the crew and was not involved at all? He's not some airhead pretty face, he's a business man as well and he is making a film with partners.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> But he's not just an actor but the producer Rust has (currently) 5 credited executive producers, 6 producers, and a co-producer. Even if Baldwin’s producer credit reflects an actual responsible role and not a producer credit in lieu of additional pay, no one not involved in the production can say from the credits alone that Baldwin had any responsibility over the actions that led to the incident, beyond that which he had as an actor (which is not none, to be clear.)