4 ms·

A friendly reminder: 1. All firearms are always loaded. 2. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you’re rea

A friendly reminder: 1. All firearms are always loaded. 2. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you’re ready to shoot. 4. Keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Do not point the gun at something you do not want to destroy.

dotancohen 5y ago
For those who don't know, these rules are well-established "4 Laws" that _responsible_ gun owners and handlers abide by.
suzzer99 5y ago
That's not how it works in movies though. Actors aren't expected to know how to inspect their own firearms. They're given a gun and told whether it's cold or hot.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  This is a good reminder to actors then that they should learn to safely operate guns if they will be using them. It's not too hard to learn and very important.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    That's like saying kids should learn how to safely operate guns since they use toy guns and might confuse them for the real deal. The problem would be if you hand a kid a gun, saying it's a toy gun and they aim and fire it towards their friends. This is basically what happened in this scenario with Alec Baldwin.
    - furgooswft13 5y ago
      So actors are children that cannot be expected to take responsibility for their actions... I don't necessarily disagree. I too long for the day when entertainers were considered nothing more than trained monkeys. This guy still needs to go to jail though. He could pretend he's Trump while frowning in his prison cell if it makes him feel better. I'm sure SNL could spare a new cinematographer.
    - ALittleLight 5y ago
      No, it's like saying an adult professional operating a deadly machine should learn to do it safely.
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      > The problem would be if you hand a kid a gun, saying it's > a toy gun and they aim and fire it towards their friends. Why do toy guns exist at all? What do children learn other than to point weapons at each other and carelessly pull a trigger without consequence? I would understand a toy hunting rifle, but all that I've ever seen are toy assault rifles and pistols. My three children have never had a toy gun. For context, I've served in infantry and have multiple firearms in the house.
      - capableweb 5y ago
        Because kids like to play with stuff? Most people in the world (outside the US) will never hold a gun in their hand in the lifetime, so learning vs not learning to pointing weapons doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of it all. Also, not sure what children playing with guns have to do with this accident on the Rust set.
  - suzzer99 5y ago
    I'm sure some actors do. But a lot of prop guns have been specially modified to only take blanks, or take no bullets at all. It's going to be very hard for an actor to discern the difference between blanks, dummy bullets, and prop-gun modifications on a wide range of guns. That's why you have a licensed armorer on set.
  - OrvalWintermute 5y ago
    There is a problem with this, and that is the amount of time required to truly develop expertise in a weapons system may be significant. I estimate I have fired > 5,000 rounds of 5.56 and > 100,000 rounds of 7.62, and, I have worked as an armorer, and while my weapon handling may have been safe, it would be insufficient to create a safe environment, because that is inherently an organizational function You personally need the training with each of the firearms you are handling, as well as the oversight of safety personnel, and a safety culture with strong processes. You also need the safe equipment since a mechanical failure can easily cause one of these accidents too. People, processes, technology, and leadership. On a low-budget film pressed for $, & time, neglecting safety, I think it is much easier to understand how this tragedy occurred.
- matthewmarkus 5y ago
  Maybe actors should take the same course hunters have to take. I'm not a hunter, but I took one for fun, and the first thing you learn is always to assume a gun is "hot" until you've checked it yourself. I'm pretty sure someone wouldn't have an unschooled actor operate a motor vehicle. The same thinking should apply when they operate a firearm.
- dfsegoat 5y ago
  These are the 4 most basic tenants of gun safety. You are expected to know them on any gun range, and most staffed ranges will safety brief / quiz you on them before they let you shoot. In this case, they say industry SOP would be for 2 people to verify that the weapon is unloaded (set armorer + 1 other).
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > Actors aren't expected to know how to inspect their own firearms. They should be ffs. Even if it's only prop guns. Basic gun safety rules aren't that hard, and most guns are easy to take apart.
- cronix 5y ago
  Anyone who picks up a gun is 100% responsible for what happens with it. There are 0 acceptable excuses for pointing a gun directly at another human, blanks or not, loaded or not, and pulling the trigger. He broke a cardinal rule of firearms. And in movies, you aim over the shoulder or otherwise slightly away from the "target." Never directly at. The camera angle makes it look like they're directly aiming at them, but they aren't. There are several rules if not laws broken here. Negligence at a minimum. And Alec is quite vocal about firearm violence. Unless he doesn't know what he's talking about, it would be hard to say he didn't know of the possibility. Ignorance is no excuse. If you want to see an actor who actually knows firearm safety and how to handle firearms, go watch Keanu Reeves train for John Wick.
  - suzzer99 5y ago
    According to the article he accidentally fired the gun while practicing pulling it out of the holster. Maybe more will come out but that seems to be the story at the moment. Yes still people shouldn't have been in the line of fire when he was practicing, just clarifying.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

dotancohen 5y ago

For those who don't know, these rules are well-established "4 Laws" that _responsible_ gun owners and handlers abide by.

suzzer99 5y ago

That's not how it works in movies though. Actors aren't expected to know how to inspect their own firearms. They're given a gun and told whether it's cold or hot.

ALittleLight 5y ago
This is a good reminder to actors then that they should learn to safely operate guns if they will be using them. It's not too hard to learn and very important.
- capableweb 5y ago
  That's like saying kids should learn how to safely operate guns since they use toy guns and might confuse them for the real deal. The problem would be if you hand a kid a gun, saying it's a toy gun and they aim and fire it towards their friends. This is basically what happened in this scenario with Alec Baldwin.
  - furgooswft13 5y ago
    So actors are children that cannot be expected to take responsibility for their actions... I don't necessarily disagree. I too long for the day when entertainers were considered nothing more than trained monkeys. This guy still needs to go to jail though. He could pretend he's Trump while frowning in his prison cell if it makes him feel better. I'm sure SNL could spare a new cinematographer.
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    No, it's like saying an adult professional operating a deadly machine should learn to do it safely.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    > The problem would be if you hand a kid a gun, saying it's > a toy gun and they aim and fire it towards their friends. Why do toy guns exist at all? What do children learn other than to point weapons at each other and carelessly pull a trigger without consequence? I would understand a toy hunting rifle, but all that I've ever seen are toy assault rifles and pistols. My three children have never had a toy gun. For context, I've served in infantry and have multiple firearms in the house.
    - capableweb 5y ago
      Because kids like to play with stuff? Most people in the world (outside the US) will never hold a gun in their hand in the lifetime, so learning vs not learning to pointing weapons doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of it all. Also, not sure what children playing with guns have to do with this accident on the Rust set.
- suzzer99 5y ago
  I'm sure some actors do. But a lot of prop guns have been specially modified to only take blanks, or take no bullets at all. It's going to be very hard for an actor to discern the difference between blanks, dummy bullets, and prop-gun modifications on a wide range of guns. That's why you have a licensed armorer on set.
- OrvalWintermute 5y ago
  There is a problem with this, and that is the amount of time required to truly develop expertise in a weapons system may be significant. I estimate I have fired > 5,000 rounds of 5.56 and > 100,000 rounds of 7.62, and, I have worked as an armorer, and while my weapon handling may have been safe, it would be insufficient to create a safe environment, because that is inherently an organizational function You personally need the training with each of the firearms you are handling, as well as the oversight of safety personnel, and a safety culture with strong processes. You also need the safe equipment since a mechanical failure can easily cause one of these accidents too. People, processes, technology, and leadership. On a low-budget film pressed for $, & time, neglecting safety, I think it is much easier to understand how this tragedy occurred.
matthewmarkus 5y ago
Maybe actors should take the same course hunters have to take. I'm not a hunter, but I took one for fun, and the first thing you learn is always to assume a gun is "hot" until you've checked it yourself. I'm pretty sure someone wouldn't have an unschooled actor operate a motor vehicle. The same thinking should apply when they operate a firearm.
dfsegoat 5y ago
These are the 4 most basic tenants of gun safety. You are expected to know them on any gun range, and most staffed ranges will safety brief / quiz you on them before they let you shoot. In this case, they say industry SOP would be for 2 people to verify that the weapon is unloaded (set armorer + 1 other).
mschuster91 5y ago
> Actors aren't expected to know how to inspect their own firearms. They should be ffs. Even if it's only prop guns. Basic gun safety rules aren't that hard, and most guns are easy to take apart.
cronix 5y ago
Anyone who picks up a gun is 100% responsible for what happens with it. There are 0 acceptable excuses for pointing a gun directly at another human, blanks or not, loaded or not, and pulling the trigger. He broke a cardinal rule of firearms. And in movies, you aim over the shoulder or otherwise slightly away from the "target." Never directly at. The camera angle makes it look like they're directly aiming at them, but they aren't. There are several rules if not laws broken here. Negligence at a minimum. And Alec is quite vocal about firearm violence. Unless he doesn't know what he's talking about, it would be hard to say he didn't know of the possibility. Ignorance is no excuse. If you want to see an actor who actually knows firearm safety and how to handle firearms, go watch Keanu Reeves train for John Wick.
- suzzer99 5y ago
  According to the article he accidentally fired the gun while practicing pulling it out of the holster. Maybe more will come out but that seems to be the story at the moment. Yes still people shouldn't have been in the line of fire when he was practicing, just clarifying.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]