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The same people uprooting our lives also lied about gain-of-function research: https://twitter.com/R_H_Ebright/status/1450947395508858880 https://twitter.com/R_

The same people uprooting our lives also lied about gain-of-function research: https://twitter.com/R_H_Ebright/status/1450947395508858880 https://twitter.com/R_H_Ebright/status/1450947395508858880 The social contract was breached from the start.

nautilius 5y ago
With ‘people who uproot our lives’ you’re talking about antivaxxers I assume, that needlessly perpetuate a pandemic that we could have defeated months ago? People who are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, while still requiring the reasonable rest to pick up the externalities for them (eg people who cannot be vaccinated)?
- readflaggedcomm 5y ago
  No, and you've already said all this without dodging the issue.
  - nautilius 5y ago
    I’m not dodging anything, and this is precisely the issue.
- gavinhoward 5y ago
  The uprooting of our lives came before the vaccine existed, so insinuating that the unvaccinated are responsible for it is completely disingenuous. Also, there were a lot of people who died before the vaccines existed, so to blame the unvaccinated for all of the deaths is disingenuous. (And that's even assuming the unvaccinated are to blame, which they are not.) Regarding people who cannot be vaccinated, if they exist, how come there are not medical exemptions available for them everywhere there is a vaccine mandate? Sure, some places claim to have such exemptions, but others do not. If you sincerely believe people cannot get the vaccine, why is it okay that mandates exist that do not allow for their exemptions? And finally, would the pandemic really be defeated if everyone got vaccinated? Since the vaccinated can still spread it, and still end up in the hospital, would the pandemic actually end? The math says no.
  - nautilius 5y ago
    It did, and it was the same people who refused to social distance, then refused masks, now refuse vaccination. For now, kids cannot be vaccinated. Just like some immunocompromised people. And yes, the pandemic would have been defeated. The math says yes, and more impressively, our experience says the same thing. There is a reason you don’t see epidemics of Polio, small pox, etc. anymore: vaccines. (it’s almost done for measles)
    - gavinhoward 5y ago
      > It did, and it was the same people who refused to social distance, then refused masks, now refuse vaccination. How do you know? Seriously? Where are the studies? Show me the math. > And yes, the pandemic would have been defeated. The math says yes, and more impressively, our experience says the same thing. There is a reason you don’t see epidemics of Polio, small pox, etc. anymore: vaccines. (it’s almost done for measles) All of those vaccines are far more effective than the COVID vaccines. I'm sure if the COVID vaccines were that effective, you could have an argument. Except...COVID can be carried by animals. Are you going to vaccinate all of the pets in America? Until you do, we will always have COVID around. COVID is more like the flu than those diseases: always mutating, always needing more vaccines. We haven't eradicated the flu, so why would we succeed with COVID?

nautilius 5y ago

With ‘people who uproot our lives’ you’re talking about antivaxxers I assume, that needlessly perpetuate a pandemic that we could have defeated months ago? People who are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, while still requiring the reasonable rest to pick up the externalities for them (eg people who cannot be vaccinated)?

readflaggedcomm 5y ago
No, and you've already said all this without dodging the issue.
- nautilius 5y ago
  I’m not dodging anything, and this is precisely the issue.
gavinhoward 5y ago
The uprooting of our lives came before the vaccine existed, so insinuating that the unvaccinated are responsible for it is completely disingenuous. Also, there were a lot of people who died before the vaccines existed, so to blame the unvaccinated for all of the deaths is disingenuous. (And that's even assuming the unvaccinated are to blame, which they are not.) Regarding people who cannot be vaccinated, if they exist, how come there are not medical exemptions available for them everywhere there is a vaccine mandate? Sure, some places claim to have such exemptions, but others do not. If you sincerely believe people cannot get the vaccine, why is it okay that mandates exist that do not allow for their exemptions? And finally, would the pandemic really be defeated if everyone got vaccinated? Since the vaccinated can still spread it, and still end up in the hospital, would the pandemic actually end? The math says no.
- nautilius 5y ago
  It did, and it was the same people who refused to social distance, then refused masks, now refuse vaccination. For now, kids cannot be vaccinated. Just like some immunocompromised people. And yes, the pandemic would have been defeated. The math says yes, and more impressively, our experience says the same thing. There is a reason you don’t see epidemics of Polio, small pox, etc. anymore: vaccines. (it’s almost done for measles)
  - gavinhoward 5y ago
    > It did, and it was the same people who refused to social distance, then refused masks, now refuse vaccination. How do you know? Seriously? Where are the studies? Show me the math. > And yes, the pandemic would have been defeated. The math says yes, and more impressively, our experience says the same thing. There is a reason you don’t see epidemics of Polio, small pox, etc. anymore: vaccines. (it’s almost done for measles) All of those vaccines are far more effective than the COVID vaccines. I'm sure if the COVID vaccines were that effective, you could have an argument. Except...COVID can be carried by animals. Are you going to vaccinate all of the pets in America? Until you do, we will always have COVID around. COVID is more like the flu than those diseases: always mutating, always needing more vaccines. We haven't eradicated the flu, so why would we succeed with COVID?