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It is unlevelling for me. I have one room where basically everything that my family does happens and it is the only place to put a desk. It is noisy. It is very

It is unlevelling for me. I have one room where basically everything that my family does happens and it is the only place to put a desk. It is noisy. It is very distracting. I am physically "at home" so my family expect me to be able to help out and do things, but I am mentally trying to be "at work" so I end up doing a half-assed job of both. I can't move out of London so that I can afford a place with a dedicated study/office room because "hybrid working" means I still need to be within commuting distance (any property within commuting distance is £,£££,£££, even before covid). Hybrid working rules at my place mean I can only physically go to the office a couple of days a week (e.g. cannot do Mon to Fri, but have to go in on assigned days) It is professionally crippling, at least for me. Edit: comments about "just do a longer commute the days you do go in" are valid, but not applicable here: I have care commitments that can't be ignored while I am on a train.

Consultant32452 5y ago
Equity never means strictly bringing the lower end up to the top. It also means chopping the top down. You were the top. You could afford to live in a very expensive city and have proximity to good jobs and other nice things.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  > It also means chopping the top down. The fact that you say this without at least the slightest hint of awareness of why many people now shudder at what cries for "equity" have morphed into highlights why the backlash against equity programs is growing. And I find this incredibly disappointing, because I do believe that equity programs that try to raise opportunity and standards for all is a good thing, but all too often I've seen it just morph into "Tall Poppy Syndrome".
  - Consultant32452 5y ago
    The only morphing was when "equality of opportunity" which is simultaneously nonsensical and undesirable morphed into "equality of outcome" (equity) which is simultaneously more coherent and depraved. Chopping off the top (unless you are a party member) was always part of it.
  - hollasch 5y ago
    Well, if it's any comfort, history shows that plenty of short poppies get mowed down collaterally in these events. You'll find a wonderful equity in the mass graves.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    In a neighboring high school where I grew up, kids during physical education class weren’t allowed to lap anyone during running (to protect feelings). You can imagine what that looked like. Ha
    - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
      Did you go to Harrison Bergeron High? /jk
- lliamander 5y ago
  Are you endorsing this state of affairs?
  - Consultant32452 5y ago
    I endorse everyone in wealthy countries who pushes equity movements to be driven to the global median income. And while we're at it force their children into median schools.
    - lliamander 5y ago
      Ah, gotcha. I think we are in agreement then.
matthewmacleod 5y ago
This is a completely valid point and I think it’s really important in this conversation about work environment to bear it in mind. Too many people seem to assume that their environment is universal, but home or hybrid working is not a panacea and different people in different situations can face a wide variety of challenges. However it’s pout out at least that keeping meetings online even when present in the office can be a really useful tool for helping everyone to have equitable access. The assumption that all of our meetings are done online from individual devices wherever possible has made it much easier for remote and in-office workers to collaborate on the same level.
garyfirestorm 5y ago
If you’re commuting once or twice a week, you don’t have to be very close to the office. You could make the distance little longer making travel a little hectic only for 2 days but for 5 days you get a bigger house.
dabeeeenster 5y ago
If you're only going in once or twice a week you can afford to live much further out. You can live 20 miles from zone 1 and still get a train in in 25 minutes.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mensetmanusman 5y ago
I take important meetings in the car. The iPhone has a great new voice isolation mode on the mic that deletes almost all background noise.
- capableweb 5y ago
  Peak capitalism when at-home workers are forced to sit in their cars to have remote meetings.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    Meh, the reality is that sometimes we have to be flexible. Even in the office it was sometimes hard to find a quiet place (construction, open office chats, etc.).
  - dcolkitt 5y ago
    “Arggghh!!! I can’t believe my employer lets me perform knowledge work from the comfort of my home and pays me enough, so I can use my sci-fi like smartphone from my private car, because my well-fed children are making too much noise from the mountains of toys we can afford for them! What a garbage economic system we live in!”
    - nickthemagicman 5y ago
      haha the horror!
giansegato 5y ago
Can't you go 5/5 days at the office, even if the meeting is online? I know many people who are doing this.
furyofantares 5y ago
This doesn't seem related to the article at all, just a vent in response to the headline.
- oblak 5y ago
  How would you summarize the article? I wouldn't have read it, had you not complained about this poster. Let me share what I gathered: 1. Francesca really likes working from home. She has the time to pick her son from school and feels empowered but she's also worried because Johnson and other British conservatives are pushing against "work-from-homers" 2. "The permanent secretary for the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, Sarah Healey, recently told staff that she would keep online meetings, because they were more effective and also helped women participate." 3. “Being interrupted and talked over puts women off from speaking out in meetings – it silences them,” she says. “On Zoom, interruptions are very messy, if people just try and shout over others everything sort of seizes up.” 4. “In physical offices we have what sociologists call a hegemonic masculine organisational culture, where white male characteristics are seen as virtues,” she says. “To think online spaces can completely remove that culture is a bit too naive but maybe some of those ingrained habits can change – if people are reflective.” What did I just read?
ckdarby 5y ago
> I can't move out of London so that I can afford a place with a dedicated study/office room because "hybrid working" Factoring in what you've said, you don't have access to a dedicated environment and don't see how to make moving out further to afford the dedicated space a possibility. That makes it clear to take advantage of the space your employer is offering you then. Go into the office. If you don't want to commute into the office every day, the other replies below are the path. Instead of commuting 30 mins each way into the office M-F move further out, commute 1 hour each way but on Monday & Friday. You're still spending less time in a week commuting but now live further out.
chana_masala 5y ago
Find a truly remote role?
jms703 5y ago
Yes, for many, working remotely is not sustainable. You definitely need a quiet and private space to work. If you have that at home, great. But many don’t have that luxury. Personally, my home setup is much better than working in an office, so I plan to work remotely indefinitely if possible. But it is not for everyone and office cultures would do well to ensure in office and home office workers are able to have similar experiences.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
  You don't. I have a 3 years old and a 6 months old, I specifically asked to be in the living room with my desk so that I could have them with me during the day. Sometimes they bother me, but more than 90% of the time they do well, they realize I work and my wife too. Set the expectations for your family,I think that's really it. And yeah, I'll have my daughter on my lap during meetings, or I'll be standing while rocking the baby occasionally. No problem, colleagues are understanding and I'm actually performing very well, so it should be possible for others to handle this. Obviously a different business is if there is no fully dedicated care (e.g. Both parents work)

Consultant32452 5y ago

Equity never means strictly bringing the lower end up to the top. It also means chopping the top down. You were the top. You could afford to live in a very expensive city and have proximity to good jobs and other nice things.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
> It also means chopping the top down. The fact that you say this without at least the slightest hint of awareness of why many people now shudder at what cries for "equity" have morphed into highlights why the backlash against equity programs is growing. And I find this incredibly disappointing, because I do believe that equity programs that try to raise opportunity and standards for all is a good thing, but all too often I've seen it just morph into "Tall Poppy Syndrome".
- Consultant32452 5y ago
  The only morphing was when "equality of opportunity" which is simultaneously nonsensical and undesirable morphed into "equality of outcome" (equity) which is simultaneously more coherent and depraved. Chopping off the top (unless you are a party member) was always part of it.
- hollasch 5y ago
  Well, if it's any comfort, history shows that plenty of short poppies get mowed down collaterally in these events. You'll find a wonderful equity in the mass graves.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  In a neighboring high school where I grew up, kids during physical education class weren’t allowed to lap anyone during running (to protect feelings). You can imagine what that looked like. Ha
  - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
    Did you go to Harrison Bergeron High? /jk
lliamander 5y ago
Are you endorsing this state of affairs?
- Consultant32452 5y ago
  I endorse everyone in wealthy countries who pushes equity movements to be driven to the global median income. And while we're at it force their children into median schools.
  - lliamander 5y ago
    Ah, gotcha. I think we are in agreement then.

matthewmacleod 5y ago

This is a completely valid point and I think it’s really important in this conversation about work environment to bear it in mind. Too many people seem to assume that their environment is universal, but home or hybrid working is not a panacea and different people in different situations can face a wide variety of challenges. However it’s pout out at least that keeping meetings online even when present in the office can be a really useful tool for helping everyone to have equitable access. The assumption that all of our meetings are done online from individual devices wherever possible has made it much easier for remote and in-office workers to collaborate on the same level.

garyfirestorm 5y ago

If you’re commuting once or twice a week, you don’t have to be very close to the office. You could make the distance little longer making travel a little hectic only for 2 days but for 5 days you get a bigger house.

dabeeeenster 5y ago

If you're only going in once or twice a week you can afford to live much further out. You can live 20 miles from zone 1 and still get a train in in 25 minutes.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mensetmanusman 5y ago

I take important meetings in the car. The iPhone has a great new voice isolation mode on the mic that deletes almost all background noise.

capableweb 5y ago
Peak capitalism when at-home workers are forced to sit in their cars to have remote meetings.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Meh, the reality is that sometimes we have to be flexible. Even in the office it was sometimes hard to find a quiet place (construction, open office chats, etc.).
- dcolkitt 5y ago
  “Arggghh!!! I can’t believe my employer lets me perform knowledge work from the comfort of my home and pays me enough, so I can use my sci-fi like smartphone from my private car, because my well-fed children are making too much noise from the mountains of toys we can afford for them! What a garbage economic system we live in!”
  - nickthemagicman 5y ago
    haha the horror!

giansegato 5y ago

Can't you go 5/5 days at the office, even if the meeting is online? I know many people who are doing this.

furyofantares 5y ago

This doesn't seem related to the article at all, just a vent in response to the headline.

oblak 5y ago
How would you summarize the article? I wouldn't have read it, had you not complained about this poster. Let me share what I gathered: 1. Francesca really likes working from home. She has the time to pick her son from school and feels empowered but she's also worried because Johnson and other British conservatives are pushing against "work-from-homers" 2. "The permanent secretary for the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, Sarah Healey, recently told staff that she would keep online meetings, because they were more effective and also helped women participate." 3. “Being interrupted and talked over puts women off from speaking out in meetings – it silences them,” she says. “On Zoom, interruptions are very messy, if people just try and shout over others everything sort of seizes up.” 4. “In physical offices we have what sociologists call a hegemonic masculine organisational culture, where white male characteristics are seen as virtues,” she says. “To think online spaces can completely remove that culture is a bit too naive but maybe some of those ingrained habits can change – if people are reflective.” What did I just read?

ckdarby 5y ago

> I can't move out of London so that I can afford a place with a dedicated study/office room because "hybrid working" Factoring in what you've said, you don't have access to a dedicated environment and don't see how to make moving out further to afford the dedicated space a possibility. That makes it clear to take advantage of the space your employer is offering you then. Go into the office. If you don't want to commute into the office every day, the other replies below are the path. Instead of commuting 30 mins each way into the office M-F move further out, commute 1 hour each way but on Monday & Friday. You're still spending less time in a week commuting but now live further out.

chana_masala 5y ago

Find a truly remote role?

jms703 5y ago

Yes, for many, working remotely is not sustainable. You definitely need a quiet and private space to work. If you have that at home, great. But many don’t have that luxury. Personally, my home setup is much better than working in an office, so I plan to work remotely indefinitely if possible. But it is not for everyone and office cultures would do well to ensure in office and home office workers are able to have similar experiences.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
You don't. I have a 3 years old and a 6 months old, I specifically asked to be in the living room with my desk so that I could have them with me during the day. Sometimes they bother me, but more than 90% of the time they do well, they realize I work and my wife too. Set the expectations for your family,I think that's really it. And yeah, I'll have my daughter on my lap during meetings, or I'll be standing while rocking the baby occasionally. No problem, colleagues are understanding and I'm actually performing very well, so it should be possible for others to handle this. Obviously a different business is if there is no fully dedicated care (e.g. Both parents work)