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does anyone else feel this is disrespectful to artists? having a computer make up colors to apply to art? it's completely devoid of the human intent that chos

does anyone else feel this is disrespectful to artists? having a computer make up colors to apply to art? it's completely devoid of the human intent that chose the original colors

hairofadog 5y ago
Speaking only for myself, no! It’s just borrowing and playing with ideas, which artists do all the time. (I have an education in fine arts, for whatever it’s worth [0]) [0]: nothing, both literally and figuratively
- Palomides 5y ago
  I'm fine with playing with ideas, but the fact that it's google smacks of "look, the computer can replicate/replace the human", which has a very different vibe than, say, Dali coloring Goya
  - hairofadog 5y ago
    Yep, good point.
  - mechanical_bear 5y ago
    The timing, considering it was posted by someone connected to Google and in light of recent news, seems suspect.
Daub 5y ago
Not exactly made up. Having only the lightness values to start with, The task is to define the hue and saturation. Though in theory there is no way to know for certain what they originally were, in practice certain lightness values are associated with some hues more than others. Also, saturation values tend to follow lightness values quite closely. Add to that the fact that Klimt (like most painters) employed a habitual pallet, you are half was to a good guess.
canjobear 5y ago
They have human Klimt experts helping too.
alisonkisk 5y ago
Klimt is dead, and the originals are missing.
woodruffw 5y ago
I empathize with this position, but I think this situation is closer to authentic restoration (which the art world is okay with, generally speaking) than an unguided machine transformation of a human work. (I've visited just about every Klimt exhibit in Vienna, including the one that these B&W photographs are in. I think they've done a remarkably faithful job here, down to accurately capturing the subperiod of Klimt's "gold period").
googlryas 5y ago
It seems different when we're just trying to guess what the actual colors were, since the artist is dead and the painting is destroyed, and we only have a black and white copy + textual description of the painting.
aeturnum 5y ago
No, absolutely not. I think that one has to be careful with labeling - these works are highly researched guesses based on lots of sources but are not "the article itself." But I think this process, where they are trying to be a thorough as possible in guessing what colors Klimt might have used mechanistically, is much more respectful than other techniques. Consider the recent Vermeer restoration[1] (hn discussion at [2]): 'restoring' the painting in this way alters the actual article and could be altering the intent of the artist. I support the work, but I think there's a basic element of uncertainty to it. At the end of the day, if you don't want to accept the machine's guess at the colors Klimt used, you don't need to! You have access to the same archival documentation of what his lost paintings looked like as everyone else. [1] https://hyperallergic.com/672345/vermeer-restoration-finally-complete-reveals-a-painting-within-a-painting/ https://hyperallergic.com/672345/vermeer-restoration-finally... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28468802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28468802

does anyone else feel this is disrespectful to artists? having a computer make up colors to apply to art? it's completely devoid of the human intent that chose the original colors

hairofadog 5y ago

Speaking only for myself, no! It’s just borrowing and playing with ideas, which artists do all the time. (I have an education in fine arts, for whatever it’s worth [0]) [0]: nothing, both literally and figuratively

Palomides 5y ago
I'm fine with playing with ideas, but the fact that it's google smacks of "look, the computer can replicate/replace the human", which has a very different vibe than, say, Dali coloring Goya
- hairofadog 5y ago
  Yep, good point.
- mechanical_bear 5y ago
  The timing, considering it was posted by someone connected to Google and in light of recent news, seems suspect.

Daub 5y ago

Not exactly made up. Having only the lightness values to start with, The task is to define the hue and saturation. Though in theory there is no way to know for certain what they originally were, in practice certain lightness values are associated with some hues more than others. Also, saturation values tend to follow lightness values quite closely. Add to that the fact that Klimt (like most painters) employed a habitual pallet, you are half was to a good guess.

canjobear 5y ago

They have human Klimt experts helping too.

alisonkisk 5y ago

Klimt is dead, and the originals are missing.

woodruffw 5y ago

I empathize with this position, but I think this situation is closer to authentic restoration (which the art world is okay with, generally speaking) than an unguided machine transformation of a human work. (I've visited just about every Klimt exhibit in Vienna, including the one that these B&W photographs are in. I think they've done a remarkably faithful job here, down to accurately capturing the subperiod of Klimt's "gold period").

googlryas 5y ago

It seems different when we're just trying to guess what the actual colors were, since the artist is dead and the painting is destroyed, and we only have a black and white copy + textual description of the painting.

aeturnum 5y ago

No, absolutely not. I think that one has to be careful with labeling - these works are highly researched guesses based on lots of sources but are not "the article itself." But I think this process, where they are trying to be a thorough as possible in guessing what colors Klimt might have used mechanistically, is much more respectful than other techniques. Consider the recent Vermeer restoration[1] (hn discussion at [2]): 'restoring' the painting in this way alters the actual article and could be altering the intent of the artist. I support the work, but I think there's a basic element of uncertainty to it. At the end of the day, if you don't want to accept the machine's guess at the colors Klimt used, you don't need to! You have access to the same archival documentation of what his lost paintings looked like as everyone else. [1] https://hyperallergic.com/672345/vermeer-restoration-finally-complete-reveals-a-painting-within-a-painting/ https://hyperallergic.com/672345/vermeer-restoration-finally... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28468802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28468802