6 ms·

I feel like there's only a very small intersection between the Facebook-avoiding, home assistant-eschewing crowd and the Tesla driving crowd. Anecdotal I know,

I feel like there's only a very small intersection between the Facebook-avoiding, home assistant-eschewing crowd and the Tesla driving crowd. Anecdotal I know, but most people I know who drive Teslas have multiple home assistants, Instagram/Facebook accounts, and little regard for personal privacy. Most people I know in the social media/home assistant avoiding crowd talk about how they wish they could buy a car with 90s tech (but 2021 safety tech) to make it simpler and cheaper to repair, since they don't care about CarPlay or Android Auto or the million "convenience" features that don't work reliably.

maxerickson 5y ago
My 2013 car is not particularly laden with gizmos and has been very easy to repair (no real breakdowns...).
- wrkronmiller 5y ago
  It depends a lot on the car and the engine. If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    > If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android. It's also federally illegal, I don't know why you've veered this thread into ease of performing illegal modifications.
    - profile53 5y ago
      Incidentally, rooting an android tablet is federally illegal too.
      - pengaru 5y ago
        Are you referring to the DMCA? The closest analog with smartphones to federal emissions laws is more like the FCC prohibiting hacking the baseband ostensibly to protect the cellular network.
    - mehrdada 5y ago
      Not everyone lives in your jurisdiction. I don’t know why you would be quick to police the discussion, as talking about how something works is done does not mean you intend to do it (and is well within the scope of “Hacker” News).
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    EFI is pretty much all upside though. When things do go wrong, the engine just tells you what the problem is.
toomuchtodo 5y ago
I’d agree with that. We own Teslas but have no home assistants, use Facebook as little as possible, and buy Apple products because of their privacy stance. Nuance is important. I trust Tesla and Apple with my data, but not Facebook, Google, or Amazon. Contributing in small part to the electrification of transportation is more important to us than any benefit I’d enjoy from Tesla collecting less or no data from our vehicles.
- mrhands556 5y ago
  But why one companies and not the other in terms of trust? It’s not like there are inherently different types of people working at one company vs the other. I’m curious.
  - bigyikes 5y ago
    Tesla doesn’t make money via ad targeting and sales.
    - mysterydip 5y ago
      Yet. As soon as data is stored/archived, it can be used later for any purpose. Even if the original company has no desire to do so, acquisitions/mergers/sales/trusted-third-parties could.
      - Retric 5y ago
        The world is full of trade offs. Stuff that might happen in the future is less important than stuff that’s definitely happening today.
        toomuchtodo 5y ago
        Time value of progress if you will.
      - JoshCole 5y ago
        No, stored data cannot be later used for any purpose. In recent years there have been numerous laws and regulations passed concerning data rights and privacy. If you get consent for data usage in one way, but then use it in a way that differs with what the user consented to, that isn't in compliance with the law. It would be fairer to say that even if the original company desperately had the desire to do so the legally required privacy compliance officer would reject their ability to do so. This is especially true at the bigger tech companies wherein they have things like external audits of their privacy compliance policies. So why is it that so much of Hacker News as a community seems convinced that things aren't like this? In the book Factfulness by Hans Rosling he talks about ten reasons that people get things wrong. One of them is that people assume that things stay the same rather than changing over time. One of the examples that he used for this is the widely held incorrect belief of a sharp distinction between third world and western countries. While there was once a sharp divide, the actual disparity greatly diminished. However, the legacy of that disparity continued to exist in the minds of people who weren't aware of the shifting distributions. As a result of these sort of shifting distributions one of the things he encourages in the book is regularly refreshing knowledge on a subject. I think something similar is happening here. A kind of nhilistic worldview in which things don't improve leads to people not updating their understanding of the world that changed in response to their frustration.
lttlrck 5y ago
2021 safety tech includes back-up camera and associated LCD display, auto braking, lane keeping, LED headlight advancements, blind spot monitoring and numerous air bags, auto wipers and lights etc etc. plus structural improvement. The car they want sounds like less well made 2021 car with 1990s fuel economy and performance and a drivetrain that is easier to maintain but needs more maintenance.
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  No, just the airbags, structural improvements (including crumple zones), and ABS brakes. Most of the other things you listed are primarily or exclusively convenience features.
- manigandham 5y ago
  Outside of airbags and structural/material improvements, most of that hasn't actually contributed much to safety. Many brands have also seen a big decline in reliability and quality of craftsmanship. In fact Tesla's high-end models still don't match the quality control of Toyota's most basic cars. Sure tech has improved but construction and longevity has taken a hit.
Waterluvian 5y ago
Not just most Tesla drivers, but most people in general have these things. The recurring theme is just how terrible high tech people are at estimating what’s normal in the world. The overwhelming majority of people don’t think or care about the privacy concerns of either. The overwhelming majority of Tesla drivers are not privacy oriented tech nerds.

maxerickson 5y ago

My 2013 car is not particularly laden with gizmos and has been very easy to repair (no real breakdowns...).

wrkronmiller 5y ago
It depends a lot on the car and the engine. If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android.
- pengaru 5y ago
  > If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android. It's also federally illegal, I don't know why you've veered this thread into ease of performing illegal modifications.
  - profile53 5y ago
    Incidentally, rooting an android tablet is federally illegal too.
    - pengaru 5y ago
      Are you referring to the DMCA? The closest analog with smartphones to federal emissions laws is more like the FCC prohibiting hacking the baseband ostensibly to protect the cellular network.
  - mehrdada 5y ago
    Not everyone lives in your jurisdiction. I don’t know why you would be quick to police the discussion, as talking about how something works is done does not mean you intend to do it (and is well within the scope of “Hacker” News).
- maxerickson 5y ago
  EFI is pretty much all upside though. When things do go wrong, the engine just tells you what the problem is.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

I’d agree with that. We own Teslas but have no home assistants, use Facebook as little as possible, and buy Apple products because of their privacy stance. Nuance is important. I trust Tesla and Apple with my data, but not Facebook, Google, or Amazon. Contributing in small part to the electrification of transportation is more important to us than any benefit I’d enjoy from Tesla collecting less or no data from our vehicles.

mrhands556 5y ago
But why one companies and not the other in terms of trust? It’s not like there are inherently different types of people working at one company vs the other. I’m curious.
- bigyikes 5y ago
  Tesla doesn’t make money via ad targeting and sales.
  - mysterydip 5y ago
    Yet. As soon as data is stored/archived, it can be used later for any purpose. Even if the original company has no desire to do so, acquisitions/mergers/sales/trusted-third-parties could.
    - Retric 5y ago
      The world is full of trade offs. Stuff that might happen in the future is less important than stuff that’s definitely happening today.
      - toomuchtodo 5y ago
        Time value of progress if you will.
    - JoshCole 5y ago
      No, stored data cannot be later used for any purpose. In recent years there have been numerous laws and regulations passed concerning data rights and privacy. If you get consent for data usage in one way, but then use it in a way that differs with what the user consented to, that isn't in compliance with the law. It would be fairer to say that even if the original company desperately had the desire to do so the legally required privacy compliance officer would reject their ability to do so. This is especially true at the bigger tech companies wherein they have things like external audits of their privacy compliance policies. So why is it that so much of Hacker News as a community seems convinced that things aren't like this? In the book Factfulness by Hans Rosling he talks about ten reasons that people get things wrong. One of them is that people assume that things stay the same rather than changing over time. One of the examples that he used for this is the widely held incorrect belief of a sharp distinction between third world and western countries. While there was once a sharp divide, the actual disparity greatly diminished. However, the legacy of that disparity continued to exist in the minds of people who weren't aware of the shifting distributions. As a result of these sort of shifting distributions one of the things he encourages in the book is regularly refreshing knowledge on a subject. I think something similar is happening here. A kind of nhilistic worldview in which things don't improve leads to people not updating their understanding of the world that changed in response to their frustration.

lttlrck 5y ago

2021 safety tech includes back-up camera and associated LCD display, auto braking, lane keeping, LED headlight advancements, blind spot monitoring and numerous air bags, auto wipers and lights etc etc. plus structural improvement. The car they want sounds like less well made 2021 car with 1990s fuel economy and performance and a drivetrain that is easier to maintain but needs more maintenance.

frosted-flakes 5y ago
No, just the airbags, structural improvements (including crumple zones), and ABS brakes. Most of the other things you listed are primarily or exclusively convenience features.
manigandham 5y ago
Outside of airbags and structural/material improvements, most of that hasn't actually contributed much to safety. Many brands have also seen a big decline in reliability and quality of craftsmanship. In fact Tesla's high-end models still don't match the quality control of Toyota's most basic cars. Sure tech has improved but construction and longevity has taken a hit.

Waterluvian 5y ago

Not just most Tesla drivers, but most people in general have these things. The recurring theme is just how terrible high tech people are at estimating what’s normal in the world. The overwhelming majority of people don’t think or care about the privacy concerns of either. The overwhelming majority of Tesla drivers are not privacy oriented tech nerds.