5 ms·

VSCode is the editor I use for everything now. But this is big. Centralizing control with Microsoft in the drivers seat now seems really risky.

by xrd 5y ago

capableweb 5y ago
Except if you do C#, which has limited support in VSCode compared to most other languages. Slightly ironic as C# is Microsofts own language.
- breakfastduck 5y ago
  I imagine that's generally a case of most C# devs just using full fat VS so the people who'd add the support to VSCode don't actually use it
  - capableweb 5y ago
    Generally yeah, but as mentioned in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28969338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28969338 Microsoft also actively refrain from adding features to the dotnet sdk in order to have less people to use them, VSCode included, in order to stuff the same features into VS.
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    I'm honestly a bit surprised that people are still using Visual Studio (sans Code) these days. It was a decent IDE ten years ago, but nowadays I'd put it far down the list (not least because it means that you have to develop primarily on Windows which is... uhm... yeah, no thanks). Is the VS experience much better when you are using C# instead of C++?
    - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
      Pretty much all dotnet developers that I know (of) use VS. I am one of the few holdouts (Rider is miles ahead IMHO and is actually cross-platform).
      - breakfastduck 5y ago
        That's the killer. Why would any serious C# developer use VSC over VS? The developers build the 'support'... But why would they give a shit about the VSC experience when none of them use it? It's a shame.
    - capableweb 5y ago
      If you're writing C# you basically only have Visual Studio and JetBrains Rider to chose between, and seemingly Microsoft is trying to get more people to use Visual Studio so lots of features are being added to Visual Studio instead of the SDK. C# support in Visual Studio Code is abysmal, hence no one uses it even if they use Visual Studio Code for other languages.
      - breakfastduck 5y ago
        It has to be said that VSC is the best supported IDE for a lot of languages. Irregardless of how anyone feels about using JS/TS on the server side it's really, really widespread - and VSC is the IDE of choice. It is one of the few privileged pieces of software that is used daily. Not just for me, either...
    - GordonS 5y ago
      I much prefer Rider myself (which is cross-platform), but Visual Studio is still a great IDE for C#, C and C++.
IceWreck 5y ago
The problem is VSCode isn't open source either. Code-OSS is the open source version from microsoft. The extensions owned by Microsoft are proprietary. So you can't run the c/c++, pylance, remote ssh, remote containers, c#, etc extensions in open source builds of Code - OSS like VSCodium. And for some of those, if you manually try to install the extensions using the .vsix file, they fail because the extensions are hardcoded to work only on VSCode builds signed by MS.
- orra 5y ago
  Pylance being proprietary is so disappointing, given it's the spiritual successor to Python Tools for Visual Studio (PTVS). PTVS was an open source Visual Studio extension, which later was ported to VSCode.
  - nickelpro 5y ago
    90% of PyLance is open source though, via the PyRight extension upon which its based. I'm not saying it's not disappointing its proprietary, but it's sorta inline with the "open core" philosophy that a lot of corporate open source work aligns itself with.
    - orra 5y ago
      Ay, you're not wrong. But even granting them that, they disappointingly say “The Pyright extension for VSCode ... is not guaranteed to be ... maintained long-term.”
- nickelpro 5y ago
  The only parts of the C/C++ extension that are proprietary are parts like intellisense, which were lifted wholesale out of visual studio. Which is to say, they were never open source to begin with. All the work the cpptools extension team has done has been open source.
- phillipcarter 5y ago
  The C# extension is open source, and is run in VSCodium. It's a fork that just swaps out the debugger component, which is a drop-in replacement since it's a binary download. The whole stack otherwise - OmniSharp for VSCode, OmniSharp-Roslyn bindings, and the underlying Roslyn language language services - are all OSS.
cmiles74 5y ago
I don't think people will swap out VS Code for the full fledged Visual Studio. The people using Code for .Net Core work will likely spend the money on Rider. Everyone else will be kind of puzzled at the comparison; it seems pretty heavy for Python (or Ruby, Clojure, etc.) Looks like Microsoft has figured out where their feet are and are taking careful aim.

VSCode is the editor I use for everything now. But this is big. Centralizing control with Microsoft in the drivers seat now seems really risky.

by xrd 5y ago

VSCode is the editor I use for everything now. But this is big. Centralizing control with Microsoft in the drivers seat now seems really risky.

capableweb 5y ago

Except if you do C#, which has limited support in VSCode compared to most other languages. Slightly ironic as C# is Microsofts own language.

breakfastduck 5y ago
I imagine that's generally a case of most C# devs just using full fat VS so the people who'd add the support to VSCode don't actually use it
- capableweb 5y ago
  Generally yeah, but as mentioned in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28969338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28969338 Microsoft also actively refrain from adding features to the dotnet sdk in order to have less people to use them, VSCode included, in order to stuff the same features into VS.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  I'm honestly a bit surprised that people are still using Visual Studio (sans Code) these days. It was a decent IDE ten years ago, but nowadays I'd put it far down the list (not least because it means that you have to develop primarily on Windows which is... uhm... yeah, no thanks). Is the VS experience much better when you are using C# instead of C++?
  - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
    Pretty much all dotnet developers that I know (of) use VS. I am one of the few holdouts (Rider is miles ahead IMHO and is actually cross-platform).
    - breakfastduck 5y ago
      That's the killer. Why would any serious C# developer use VSC over VS? The developers build the 'support'... But why would they give a shit about the VSC experience when none of them use it? It's a shame.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    If you're writing C# you basically only have Visual Studio and JetBrains Rider to chose between, and seemingly Microsoft is trying to get more people to use Visual Studio so lots of features are being added to Visual Studio instead of the SDK. C# support in Visual Studio Code is abysmal, hence no one uses it even if they use Visual Studio Code for other languages.
    - breakfastduck 5y ago
      It has to be said that VSC is the best supported IDE for a lot of languages. Irregardless of how anyone feels about using JS/TS on the server side it's really, really widespread - and VSC is the IDE of choice. It is one of the few privileged pieces of software that is used daily. Not just for me, either...
  - GordonS 5y ago
    I much prefer Rider myself (which is cross-platform), but Visual Studio is still a great IDE for C#, C and C++.

IceWreck 5y ago

The problem is VSCode isn't open source either. Code-OSS is the open source version from microsoft. The extensions owned by Microsoft are proprietary. So you can't run the c/c++, pylance, remote ssh, remote containers, c#, etc extensions in open source builds of Code - OSS like VSCodium. And for some of those, if you manually try to install the extensions using the .vsix file, they fail because the extensions are hardcoded to work only on VSCode builds signed by MS.

orra 5y ago
Pylance being proprietary is so disappointing, given it's the spiritual successor to Python Tools for Visual Studio (PTVS). PTVS was an open source Visual Studio extension, which later was ported to VSCode.
- nickelpro 5y ago
  90% of PyLance is open source though, via the PyRight extension upon which its based. I'm not saying it's not disappointing its proprietary, but it's sorta inline with the "open core" philosophy that a lot of corporate open source work aligns itself with.
  - orra 5y ago
    Ay, you're not wrong. But even granting them that, they disappointingly say “The Pyright extension for VSCode ... is not guaranteed to be ... maintained long-term.”
nickelpro 5y ago
The only parts of the C/C++ extension that are proprietary are parts like intellisense, which were lifted wholesale out of visual studio. Which is to say, they were never open source to begin with. All the work the cpptools extension team has done has been open source.
phillipcarter 5y ago
The C# extension is open source, and is run in VSCodium. It's a fork that just swaps out the debugger component, which is a drop-in replacement since it's a binary download. The whole stack otherwise - OmniSharp for VSCode, OmniSharp-Roslyn bindings, and the underlying Roslyn language language services - are all OSS.

cmiles74 5y ago

I don't think people will swap out VS Code for the full fledged Visual Studio. The people using Code for .Net Core work will likely spend the money on Rider. Everyone else will be kind of puzzled at the comparison; it seems pretty heavy for Python (or Ruby, Clojure, etc.) Looks like Microsoft has figured out where their feet are and are taking careful aim.