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I will continue to repair my ‘70s and ‘80s era vehicles, because newer models that incorporate electronics are all total garbage. Reason: embedded engineer for

I will continue to repair my ‘70s and ‘80s era vehicles, because newer models that incorporate electronics are all total garbage. Reason: embedded engineer for 30 years who has worked on automotive software.

slt2021 5y ago
old vehicles are very inefficient in terms of safety, fuel consumption, and exhaust gases, for this reason alone one should prefer electric or modern era ICE
- voakbasda 5y ago
  And those extra costs are worth paying to avoid businesses that abuse their customers by making parts and service inaccessible or unaffordable, tracking their customer, and otherwise making cars more expensive and less enjoyable to own and use. And all carmakers are abusive these days, because the market has selected for that new status quo.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  Fuel consumption and carbon emissions - that very much depends. Small cars of 30-40 year ago are often very good, even better than today's models in some cases. https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/11/04/toyota-corolla-gas-mileage/ https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/11/04/toyota-corolla-gas-mile... Reasons for this are probably creeping sizes and weights and larger engines, larger tires and softer rides.
- hungryforcodes 5y ago
  Though none of those cars track my personal data in the extreme or in fact at all. Remember the point of the GP thread...
  - speedgoose 5y ago
    In case of a crash, I rather have my butt position being tracked and in palantir's databases or equivalent than having the engine block crushing my body.
    - hungryforcodes 5y ago
      I have no idea why these are mutually exclusive and no I'd rather die in a flaming car accident than have myself tracked in Palentir's databases. Fortunately, I don't have a car-- nor need one -- so this is a pleasant day.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  The emissions cost of building a new car and shipping it halfway across the world will significantly affect this calculation. You can drive a less efficient car for many years on the carbon cost of building a new one, as long as you're not driving some huge pick up or other obscene gas guzzler.
  - natch 5y ago
    The second part of what you said is a widespread myth. There is a crossover point after you drive a certain number of miles in an EV, after which the lifetime carbon cost is lower than that of an equivalent ICE car. For Model 3 the crossover point is estimated at around 5,000 miles. Not "many years." The sources and methodology for this estimate are discussed in detail in Tesla's 2020 Impact Report. https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf Excerpt: — Variables often overlooked by other lifecycle studies: * Using Worldwide Harmonized Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP) or Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) fuel/energy consumption data (both of which overestimate fuel-economy and underestimate emissions) rather than real-world data; * Not considering the higher energy efficiency of Tesla’s powertrains; * Assuming the average EV needs a battery replacement at some point in its life; * Not considering emissions generated through the oil refining and the transportation process; and * Using outdated data for the carbon impact of cell manufacturing.
    - novok 5y ago
      I like this youtube video that goes over various crossover points. The tesla beats the RAV4 prime at ~45k miles and a rav4 ICE at ~28k miles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEqxaH47DTs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEqxaH47DTs I think 5k miles is a bit low, and using tesla as your only source biased.
      - natch 5y ago
        I wouldn't count out the possibility that this YouTube channel is receiving affiliate commissions and is not as reliable a source as you think. Putting that up against Tesla, which would have a lot to lose by putting the wrong analysis into their Impact Report, I would give Tesla more credibility despite the fact that they have a vested interest here. Their vested interest is out in the open, not a secret… it's the mission of the company even.
- userbinator 5y ago
  Some people care more about other things when choosing a vehicle. I suspect motorcyclists are far less worried about safety, for example. Performance enthusiasts too, although not to the same extent; and some just want a comfortable roomy ride with plenty of power as well as ease of repair and parts availability. As the saying goes: "It's not about the miles per gallon, it's about the smiles per gallon."
croh 5y ago
you can repair only as long as parts are avilable.
- voakbasda 5y ago
  Parts are available because I am far from alone in this sentiment.
btbuilder 5y ago
In my experience fuel injection is much more reliable than carburetors. Fuel injection requires zero adjustment. Many mid-90s cars have electronic fuel injection and ABS controllers and that’s it.

slt2021 5y ago

old vehicles are very inefficient in terms of safety, fuel consumption, and exhaust gases, for this reason alone one should prefer electric or modern era ICE

voakbasda 5y ago
And those extra costs are worth paying to avoid businesses that abuse their customers by making parts and service inaccessible or unaffordable, tracking their customer, and otherwise making cars more expensive and less enjoyable to own and use. And all carmakers are abusive these days, because the market has selected for that new status quo.
throwawaylinux 5y ago
Fuel consumption and carbon emissions - that very much depends. Small cars of 30-40 year ago are often very good, even better than today's models in some cases. https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/11/04/toyota-corolla-gas-mileage/ https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/11/04/toyota-corolla-gas-mile... Reasons for this are probably creeping sizes and weights and larger engines, larger tires and softer rides.
hungryforcodes 5y ago
Though none of those cars track my personal data in the extreme or in fact at all. Remember the point of the GP thread...
- speedgoose 5y ago
  In case of a crash, I rather have my butt position being tracked and in palantir's databases or equivalent than having the engine block crushing my body.
  - hungryforcodes 5y ago
    I have no idea why these are mutually exclusive and no I'd rather die in a flaming car accident than have myself tracked in Palentir's databases. Fortunately, I don't have a car-- nor need one -- so this is a pleasant day.
tsimionescu 5y ago
The emissions cost of building a new car and shipping it halfway across the world will significantly affect this calculation. You can drive a less efficient car for many years on the carbon cost of building a new one, as long as you're not driving some huge pick up or other obscene gas guzzler.
- natch 5y ago
  The second part of what you said is a widespread myth. There is a crossover point after you drive a certain number of miles in an EV, after which the lifetime carbon cost is lower than that of an equivalent ICE car. For Model 3 the crossover point is estimated at around 5,000 miles. Not "many years." The sources and methodology for this estimate are discussed in detail in Tesla's 2020 Impact Report. https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf Excerpt: — Variables often overlooked by other lifecycle studies: * Using Worldwide Harmonized Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP) or Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) fuel/energy consumption data (both of which overestimate fuel-economy and underestimate emissions) rather than real-world data; * Not considering the higher energy efficiency of Tesla’s powertrains; * Assuming the average EV needs a battery replacement at some point in its life; * Not considering emissions generated through the oil refining and the transportation process; and * Using outdated data for the carbon impact of cell manufacturing.
  - novok 5y ago
    I like this youtube video that goes over various crossover points. The tesla beats the RAV4 prime at ~45k miles and a rav4 ICE at ~28k miles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEqxaH47DTs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEqxaH47DTs I think 5k miles is a bit low, and using tesla as your only source biased.
    - natch 5y ago
      I wouldn't count out the possibility that this YouTube channel is receiving affiliate commissions and is not as reliable a source as you think. Putting that up against Tesla, which would have a lot to lose by putting the wrong analysis into their Impact Report, I would give Tesla more credibility despite the fact that they have a vested interest here. Their vested interest is out in the open, not a secret… it's the mission of the company even.
userbinator 5y ago
Some people care more about other things when choosing a vehicle. I suspect motorcyclists are far less worried about safety, for example. Performance enthusiasts too, although not to the same extent; and some just want a comfortable roomy ride with plenty of power as well as ease of repair and parts availability. As the saying goes: "It's not about the miles per gallon, it's about the smiles per gallon."

croh 5y ago

you can repair only as long as parts are avilable.

voakbasda 5y ago
Parts are available because I am far from alone in this sentiment.

btbuilder 5y ago

In my experience fuel injection is much more reliable than carburetors. Fuel injection requires zero adjustment. Many mid-90s cars have electronic fuel injection and ABS controllers and that’s it.