5 ms·

"This won't work with the commodity technology I use" (wireless LAN) "Here's some ways in which it can work using a slightly different but still as widely used

"This won't work with the commodity technology I use" (wireless LAN) "Here's some ways in which it can work using a slightly different but still as widely used commodity technology" (wired LAN) "No, that is unreasonable, wires are unreasonable" Like, it's SUCH a simple solution: use wires. That's how I can stream games from my computer to my parent's house at 1080p60 with only about 30ms latency over domestic broadband connection, for example. Also, sometimes you can get really lucky with wireless on 5ghz - see streaming in VR as a prime example. The developer of Virtual Desktop for the Quest has done some great work getting a really solid low latency VR feel; I've been able to stream games from rent-a-VM ShadowPC servers without feeling the lag. OK, so pro audio is a different beast and is even more sensitive to latency than VR, but here people are having fun with this tech and clearly it's working for them!

k__ 5y ago
How is 30ms remotely a good latency here? I have 14ms between my Quest/PC and it feels sluggish.
- capableweb 5y ago
  From the website: > We've been able to achieve sub 20ms latency from UK to Denmark - more than 1000km ! That is pretty good latency for what it does, it's not just ICMP packages but sending/receiving audio and then all that comes with it. How are you connecting your Quest and PC? Sounds awful, my latency to friends outside the city has a shorter latency than that and they are more than 10km away from me.
  - k__ 5y ago
    That's why I don't believe those numbers. All I've seen in shorter distances was usually worse :(
    - capableweb 5y ago
      Maybe because you refuse to use wires and instead use WiFi which can have really bad latency? If you really, really, really want to use WiFi, get a dedicated PCIe/external WiFi optimized for latency and you can get close to Ethernet latency.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - grepfru_it 5y ago
      this right here. 1 mile away, both of us have AT&T fiber, we're seeing 10-15ms response times (packet size ~1400). 100 miles away, both on AT&T fiber clocked in around 18-20ms 1 mile away, one on AT&T fiber the other on Comcast gigabit had response times around 24ms 100 miles away, one on AT&T fiber the other on Comcast gigabit had response times around 35ms i'm hard pressed to believe you will find an american ISP that prioritizes low latency. verizon 5g home actually did some magic with their non-standard hardware where i was seeing 9ms to my in-town datacenter and 16ms to my out-of-state datacenter. when they replaced the hardware with the standards-compliant generation of hardware my latency increased to 30ms in-town (they also changed towers so that could be part of the problem, plus congestion during prime time) i just moved where i am 6 blocks away from my friend who i did the 1 mile test with. i will retest this afternoon and update this comment
      - weepy 5y ago
        That sounds really crazy bad. Europe here so I don't know much about US - but I've had US people use it an report good experience - so dunno.
      - wmwmwm 5y ago
        I see 3ms ping times between my friend and I on opposite sides of London, though we’re both on pretty decent broadband tech (me gfast, him some fancy hyperoptic plan). IIUC there are some ADSL technologies that add some minimum latency floor of 10+ ms. However the long distance stretches of backbone fibre shouldn’t necessarily add too much latency - e.g 100km of fibre at 2/3rd speed of light is an additional 1ms on your (two way) ping time
- wmwmwm 5y ago
  It’s worth remembering that sound takes 3ms to travel a metre. If you’re standing a few metres away from a drummer then the round trip time is already pushing 20-30 ms of latency and yet you can still play together in a rehearsal room
rytill 5y ago
It’s impossible to get some people to use wires. I work in an area where a high bandwidth, low latency connection is in theory mission critical for my customers and they still use WiFi 80% of the time.
- bob1029 5y ago
  > It’s impossible to get some people to use wires. Indeed. Perhaps we don't worry about those people anymore. If you are interested in a high quality experience but don't want to satisfy the prerequisites, you are not entitled. WiFi is never going to provide a reliable, ultra-low-latency streaming experience for the average person. This isn't a "we can but we won't" type of problem where, with just a bit of extra effort, we can somehow magically solve all of the deficits. Yes, there are scenarios where WiFi is indistinguishable from ethernet, but those are exceedingly rare in my experience.

k__ 5y ago

How is 30ms remotely a good latency here? I have 14ms between my Quest/PC and it feels sluggish.

capableweb 5y ago
From the website: > We've been able to achieve sub 20ms latency from UK to Denmark - more than 1000km ! That is pretty good latency for what it does, it's not just ICMP packages but sending/receiving audio and then all that comes with it. How are you connecting your Quest and PC? Sounds awful, my latency to friends outside the city has a shorter latency than that and they are more than 10km away from me.
- k__ 5y ago
  That's why I don't believe those numbers. All I've seen in shorter distances was usually worse :(
  - capableweb 5y ago
    Maybe because you refuse to use wires and instead use WiFi which can have really bad latency? If you really, really, really want to use WiFi, get a dedicated PCIe/external WiFi optimized for latency and you can get close to Ethernet latency.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - grepfru_it 5y ago
    this right here. 1 mile away, both of us have AT&T fiber, we're seeing 10-15ms response times (packet size ~1400). 100 miles away, both on AT&T fiber clocked in around 18-20ms 1 mile away, one on AT&T fiber the other on Comcast gigabit had response times around 24ms 100 miles away, one on AT&T fiber the other on Comcast gigabit had response times around 35ms i'm hard pressed to believe you will find an american ISP that prioritizes low latency. verizon 5g home actually did some magic with their non-standard hardware where i was seeing 9ms to my in-town datacenter and 16ms to my out-of-state datacenter. when they replaced the hardware with the standards-compliant generation of hardware my latency increased to 30ms in-town (they also changed towers so that could be part of the problem, plus congestion during prime time) i just moved where i am 6 blocks away from my friend who i did the 1 mile test with. i will retest this afternoon and update this comment
    - weepy 5y ago
      That sounds really crazy bad. Europe here so I don't know much about US - but I've had US people use it an report good experience - so dunno.
    - wmwmwm 5y ago
      I see 3ms ping times between my friend and I on opposite sides of London, though we’re both on pretty decent broadband tech (me gfast, him some fancy hyperoptic plan). IIUC there are some ADSL technologies that add some minimum latency floor of 10+ ms. However the long distance stretches of backbone fibre shouldn’t necessarily add too much latency - e.g 100km of fibre at 2/3rd speed of light is an additional 1ms on your (two way) ping time
wmwmwm 5y ago
It’s worth remembering that sound takes 3ms to travel a metre. If you’re standing a few metres away from a drummer then the round trip time is already pushing 20-30 ms of latency and yet you can still play together in a rehearsal room

rytill 5y ago

It’s impossible to get some people to use wires. I work in an area where a high bandwidth, low latency connection is in theory mission critical for my customers and they still use WiFi 80% of the time.

bob1029 5y ago
> It’s impossible to get some people to use wires. Indeed. Perhaps we don't worry about those people anymore. If you are interested in a high quality experience but don't want to satisfy the prerequisites, you are not entitled. WiFi is never going to provide a reliable, ultra-low-latency streaming experience for the average person. This isn't a "we can but we won't" type of problem where, with just a bit of extra effort, we can somehow magically solve all of the deficits. Yes, there are scenarios where WiFi is indistinguishable from ethernet, but those are exceedingly rare in my experience.