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As an IT professional, I don't like it at all. The plethora of laws makes it much harder to do business in the EU: If you want to process any kind of data you a

by kenty 5y ago

As an IT professional, I don't like it at all. The plethora of laws makes it much harder to do business in the EU: If you want to process any kind of data you are immediately forced to spend a lot of money on security certifications. This increased cost and velocity reduces the competitiveness of EU based companies which need to capture their home-market first. This is one of the potential factors why the EU loses out to other markets in startup-friendliness.

hownottowrite 5y ago
This is what I expected to hear. We had similar issues in the US with corporate tech when various financial regulations came down in the early ‘00s
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- throwawaymanbot 5y ago
  That turned out well for American and the world in 2008 didn’t it?
- guerrilla 5y ago
  So you're going to keep asking people until you hear what you expect to hear instead of looking at the evidence? Based on your behavior here, it seems like you have already formed your conclusion and are only looking to hear specifically what you want instead of listening to the majority.
  - hownottowrite 5y ago
    Not at all on either account.
GordonS 5y ago
What are these security certifications you are referring to, and who required you to get them?
dmitriid 5y ago
> If you want to process any kind of data you are immediately forced to spend a lot of money on security certifications No, you don't > This is one of the potential factors why the EU loses out to other markets in startup-friendliness. No, it doesn't. What it "loses out on" is on price dumping through unlimited investor money and wholesale private data collection
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  Do you actually work for a small to medium-sized EU business? Because I do and the amount of money we need to throw at compliance, both in direct costs and dev hours, is immense. And we're not doing ads, user targeting, or any other such "nasty" industry practices. Our product is widely thought of by both our customers and investors, as wholesome! But our product does require customer accounts and data storage because wheeling in a server rack to wherever they are is the last thing they want. I used to be think GDPR was a good thrust for user privacy but years later what I see is an adorned web already suffering under the weight of its own crap super-adorned with these cookie banners that impact my actual, day to day life of the net. That's not a failure of the companies doing the tracking, that's a failure of regulation. The EU could have legally enforced the existing Do Not Track flag but instead we get a worse web that has literally shaved off hours (days?) of my life clicking through cookie forms. And no number of uBlock scripts that promise to erase them from the web has been enough to stop them. So, report these privacy invading companies to your local data protection body, you say! Sir, madam or epithet of your choice, have you tried reporting a breach to the Danish Data Protection Agency? They will do everything in their power to invalidate your claim. That was the last straw for me. Our protectors are indolent or powerless and here we proclaim victory! All I've seen from these rulings is spinning wheels, wasted labor, money set fire and pain. Our German clients have screamed and hollered (thanks, Schrems II!) to bifurcate our clouds so that one side is AWS and the other is a German cloud that moves with the glacial pace of the 90s and with that decade's service portfolio. Don't even get me started on the service level difference: AWS: how can we literally give you everything you need to build your successful business? How about these free recruits who just graduated out of our program that specifically re-trains people from disadvantaged backgrounds to be cloud all-stars? How about regular consulting sessions with our teams to identify how you can save money with us? German cloud: let's make setting up a managed DB the most horrifically onerous process possible that's unreliable and flaky with your data and then charge you thousands of euros for support fees fixing the things that were our fault to begin with.
wongarsu 5y ago
What kinds of security certifications? GDPR doesn't require any certifications
Levitz 5y ago
This really gives me "Western regulations on labor hurts its economy compared to China" vibes.
- kenty 5y ago
  It shouldn't. Arguments on HN are often reduced to China vs West where the tech world is much more global nowadays, e.g. Israel, India, Brazil.
jandorn 5y ago
Human rights also makes it much harder to do business in the EU. Your point?
- kenty 5y ago
  I would argue that human rights make it easier to do business in the EU. For example, a government which ensures that you don't go to jail for some bs reason is a government which I would be more trustful of as an enterpreneur.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
As a human being who wants his information to be secure, I love it. If companies are going to peddle the personal information of individuals, and that information could potentially harm them if it became public, then getting security certifications is the very LEAST a company can do if they want to do business in that sphere. Everyone everywhere should demand it.

by kenty 5y ago

hownottowrite 5y ago

This is what I expected to hear. We had similar issues in the US with corporate tech when various financial regulations came down in the early ‘00s

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throwawaymanbot 5y ago
That turned out well for American and the world in 2008 didn’t it?
guerrilla 5y ago
So you're going to keep asking people until you hear what you expect to hear instead of looking at the evidence? Based on your behavior here, it seems like you have already formed your conclusion and are only looking to hear specifically what you want instead of listening to the majority.
- hownottowrite 5y ago
  Not at all on either account.

GordonS 5y ago

What are these security certifications you are referring to, and who required you to get them?

dmitriid 5y ago

> If you want to process any kind of data you are immediately forced to spend a lot of money on security certifications No, you don't > This is one of the potential factors why the EU loses out to other markets in startup-friendliness. No, it doesn't. What it "loses out on" is on price dumping through unlimited investor money and wholesale private data collection

emptysongglass 5y ago
Do you actually work for a small to medium-sized EU business? Because I do and the amount of money we need to throw at compliance, both in direct costs and dev hours, is immense. And we're not doing ads, user targeting, or any other such "nasty" industry practices. Our product is widely thought of by both our customers and investors, as wholesome! But our product does require customer accounts and data storage because wheeling in a server rack to wherever they are is the last thing they want. I used to be think GDPR was a good thrust for user privacy but years later what I see is an adorned web already suffering under the weight of its own crap super-adorned with these cookie banners that impact my actual, day to day life of the net. That's not a failure of the companies doing the tracking, that's a failure of regulation. The EU could have legally enforced the existing Do Not Track flag but instead we get a worse web that has literally shaved off hours (days?) of my life clicking through cookie forms. And no number of uBlock scripts that promise to erase them from the web has been enough to stop them. So, report these privacy invading companies to your local data protection body, you say! Sir, madam or epithet of your choice, have you tried reporting a breach to the Danish Data Protection Agency? They will do everything in their power to invalidate your claim. That was the last straw for me. Our protectors are indolent or powerless and here we proclaim victory! All I've seen from these rulings is spinning wheels, wasted labor, money set fire and pain. Our German clients have screamed and hollered (thanks, Schrems II!) to bifurcate our clouds so that one side is AWS and the other is a German cloud that moves with the glacial pace of the 90s and with that decade's service portfolio. Don't even get me started on the service level difference: AWS: how can we literally give you everything you need to build your successful business? How about these free recruits who just graduated out of our program that specifically re-trains people from disadvantaged backgrounds to be cloud all-stars? How about regular consulting sessions with our teams to identify how you can save money with us? German cloud: let's make setting up a managed DB the most horrifically onerous process possible that's unreliable and flaky with your data and then charge you thousands of euros for support fees fixing the things that were our fault to begin with.

wongarsu 5y ago

What kinds of security certifications? GDPR doesn't require any certifications

Levitz 5y ago

This really gives me "Western regulations on labor hurts its economy compared to China" vibes.

kenty 5y ago
It shouldn't. Arguments on HN are often reduced to China vs West where the tech world is much more global nowadays, e.g. Israel, India, Brazil.

jandorn 5y ago

Human rights also makes it much harder to do business in the EU. Your point?

kenty 5y ago
I would argue that human rights make it easier to do business in the EU. For example, a government which ensures that you don't go to jail for some bs reason is a government which I would be more trustful of as an enterpreneur.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

As a human being who wants his information to be secure, I love it. If companies are going to peddle the personal information of individuals, and that information could potentially harm them if it became public, then getting security certifications is the very LEAST a company can do if they want to do business in that sphere. Everyone everywhere should demand it.