5 ms·

This is pretty damning stuff. Here's the question I have: there are a ton of quotes in here from employees. In what context were these statements made? In depos

by cletus 5y ago

This is pretty damning stuff. Here's the question I have: there are a ton of quotes in here from employees. In what context were these statements made? In depositions? I would guess not. I'd guess they were made in emails, Google docs and presentations that were a result of discovery (or a whistleblower I guess). If so, I really want to find these people and ask them "what were you thinking?" Any big company has required training on communicating with care. So who are these people who seem to be so careless or oblivious to how those statements might be viewed when exposed? Leadership? Product? Engineering? ICs? Managers? I'd be interested to know more about the allegation that Google declared itself the winner of an auction even if there were higher bids. If that has any substance, that's... a problem. I really wonder how such a thing could be implemented by engineers without someone raising eyebrows. Oh and once again can we just kill the meme of Twitter threads? I mean seriously.

belter 5y ago
Maybe inverting binary trees and real intelligence are not related?
- ctvo 5y ago
  Tell us you bombed the on-site without telling us.
  - bfrog 5y ago
    The best part of consulting/doing your own thing? People only look at your portfolio of work, you know, like every other profession
mysterydip 5y ago
When I started a new job, one thing in orientation was "the 'e' in 'e-mail' stands for 'evidence'."
- roland35 5y ago
  That's a good way of thinking about it. When I was a kid I remember hearing "imagine reading everything you write down to grandma" or "read on the morning news". I try to keep that in mind to this day.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
  Isn’t that a huge red flag as an employee for that to be in orientation? It would make me want to put everything in writing in case they did sketchy shit.
  - mysterydip 5y ago
    Accountability is half the point, actually. For example, if there's a coworker you know promises verbally then later says that never happend or they don't remember, get it in email. Likewise if you want to be sure you're on the record of "I don't agree with this idea."
  - bseidensticker 5y ago
    Yeah I got that feeling as well, but it's not the main reason that is presented in the training. The main issue is that your words will be taken out of context and used against the company. If you say "we are going to dominate the market" instead of "our product is going to be really well received" that can be used as evidence of anticompetitive behavior. Nevermind the fact that you're an IC and not a lawyer qualified to comment on if you are truly dominating the market.
    - rreichman 5y ago
      Ostensibly true but in practice this is a way of lawyers to say - don't put illegal things we do in writing.
aj3 5y ago
I'm not the company I work for. If they're doing unethical stuff, fuck them. Never understood, why others are so keen to protect employer given company will throw under the bus any of us in a blink of an eye.
- cletus 5y ago
  Tell that to James Robert Liang [1]. This isn't about protecting the company. It's about protecting yourself. You're opening yourself to be a witness in a suit (nobody wants that), thrown to the wolves by the company (who will attempt to portray you as a rogue actor) or criminal prosecution. Now if the company is doing something unethical and it's why you're leaving, then sure write that down as long as you're not admitting personal culpability of any sort. Likewise, if you feel like you're being set up to take the fall for something, a paper trail can help you. But otherwise, if you're in an ethical grey area and decide you want to continue to earn an income to, you know, live then there are such things as "inside thoughts". [1]: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/volkswagen-engineer-sentenced-his-role-conspiracy-cheat-us-emissions-tests https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/volkswagen-engineer-sentenced...
  - aj3 5y ago
    Pardon my French, but you're either a coward or bootlicker. There won't be any criminal prosecution for raising legitimate issues internally & putting those in writing, no matter what company lawyers tell you. And if the most privileged and job-secure people on the planet can't take the risk of undermining their FAANG overlords for the sake of humanity, who will?
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      History suggests otherwise. The legal protections exist because they've been repeatedly proved necessary. https://whistleblowersblog.org/opinion/a-history-of-corporate-whistleblower-protection-laws-and-the-efforts-to-undermine-them/ https://whistleblowersblog.org/opinion/a-history-of-corporat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood
olegious 5y ago
The dropping of higher bids is the biggest revelation here. I would guess that higher bids would be dropped if they didn’t meet a max response time, maybe bids from Google were given a speed advantage to get under this max time.

by cletus 5y ago

belter 5y ago

Maybe inverting binary trees and real intelligence are not related?

ctvo 5y ago
Tell us you bombed the on-site without telling us.
- bfrog 5y ago
  The best part of consulting/doing your own thing? People only look at your portfolio of work, you know, like every other profession

mysterydip 5y ago

When I started a new job, one thing in orientation was "the 'e' in 'e-mail' stands for 'evidence'."

roland35 5y ago
That's a good way of thinking about it. When I was a kid I remember hearing "imagine reading everything you write down to grandma" or "read on the morning news". I try to keep that in mind to this day.
6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
Isn’t that a huge red flag as an employee for that to be in orientation? It would make me want to put everything in writing in case they did sketchy shit.
- mysterydip 5y ago
  Accountability is half the point, actually. For example, if there's a coworker you know promises verbally then later says that never happend or they don't remember, get it in email. Likewise if you want to be sure you're on the record of "I don't agree with this idea."
- bseidensticker 5y ago
  Yeah I got that feeling as well, but it's not the main reason that is presented in the training. The main issue is that your words will be taken out of context and used against the company. If you say "we are going to dominate the market" instead of "our product is going to be really well received" that can be used as evidence of anticompetitive behavior. Nevermind the fact that you're an IC and not a lawyer qualified to comment on if you are truly dominating the market.
  - rreichman 5y ago
    Ostensibly true but in practice this is a way of lawyers to say - don't put illegal things we do in writing.

aj3 5y ago

I'm not the company I work for. If they're doing unethical stuff, fuck them. Never understood, why others are so keen to protect employer given company will throw under the bus any of us in a blink of an eye.

cletus 5y ago
Tell that to James Robert Liang [1]. This isn't about protecting the company. It's about protecting yourself. You're opening yourself to be a witness in a suit (nobody wants that), thrown to the wolves by the company (who will attempt to portray you as a rogue actor) or criminal prosecution. Now if the company is doing something unethical and it's why you're leaving, then sure write that down as long as you're not admitting personal culpability of any sort. Likewise, if you feel like you're being set up to take the fall for something, a paper trail can help you. But otherwise, if you're in an ethical grey area and decide you want to continue to earn an income to, you know, live then there are such things as "inside thoughts". [1]: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/volkswagen-engineer-sentenced-his-role-conspiracy-cheat-us-emissions-tests https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/volkswagen-engineer-sentenced...
- aj3 5y ago
  Pardon my French, but you're either a coward or bootlicker. There won't be any criminal prosecution for raising legitimate issues internally & putting those in writing, no matter what company lawyers tell you. And if the most privileged and job-secure people on the planet can't take the risk of undermining their FAANG overlords for the sake of humanity, who will?
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    History suggests otherwise. The legal protections exist because they've been repeatedly proved necessary. https://whistleblowersblog.org/opinion/a-history-of-corporate-whistleblower-protection-laws-and-the-efforts-to-undermine-them/ https://whistleblowersblog.org/opinion/a-history-of-corporat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood

olegious 5y ago

The dropping of higher bids is the biggest revelation here. I would guess that higher bids would be dropped if they didn’t meet a max response time, maybe bids from Google were given a speed advantage to get under this max time.