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I wonder how that code managed to stay secret so many years. How did they keep all the mass of data, the tickets, the user stories and pitch decks from being s

by eecc 5y ago

I wonder how that code managed to stay secret so many years. How did they keep all the mass of data, the tickets, the user stories and pitch decks from being spilled online and get publicly dressed down? I guess that’s the one single major threat to effectively WHF: the need for maximum security secrecy and infrastructure control.

phendrenad2 5y ago
Google is known to develop stuff in an RPC-first kind of way. Makes me wonder if higher-ups are able to just write a quick script to do this, without lower level employees even knowing.
tommek4077 5y ago
Because the code itself is much simpler than you would think.
- eecc 5y ago
  What about the rest; the presentations the executive summaries… all the paperwork that suits babble around… it takes some serious “terrorist organization” opsec to perform like this
  - heurist 5y ago
    They have to do that whether they are being evil or not just to prevent competitive intelligence and other damaging info from leaking. So the systems are there
bob1029 5y ago
> How did they keep all the mass of data, the tickets, the user stories and pitch decks from being spilled online and get publicly dressed down? Legal agreements and extremely valuable employment contracts, most likely. My understanding is that some (most?) of the developers out there today are in it for the money. If someone promised you enough income to retire by age 31, and all you had to do was keep your mouth shut for the interim, I think you may comply and even go out of your way a bit to protect your employer. This all explains it in my head. Its not that there is some vast, elaborate conspiracy, its that everyone involved is being heavily-incentivized to do the wrong thing.
- latchkey 5y ago
  "Don't be evil"
  - thedailymail 5y ago
    "Don't get caught."
- secondcoming 5y ago
  everybody in adtech is in it for the money! Nobody loves ads.
  - eclipxe 5y ago
    I actually do enjoy ads. Especially relevant and targeted ones. I enjoy finding out about new and interesting products related to my hobbies (music production).
p2t2p 5y ago
Well, look at me. I’m an immigrant. My wife’s useful skills would probably give her salary of about 5th of what we need, so she doesn’t work and takes care of the kid, house and engages in her hobbies, like making custom teddy bears. If I were put on a project like that I can easily imagine being quiet about it as I put well being of my family waaaay above any ethics. I can imagine that a lot of people do. So the only real way to solve it is robust regulation and good channels for whistleblowers.
- awild 5y ago
  > So the only real way to solve it is robust regulation and good channels for whistleblowers. And probably some sort of minimal unconditional financial security denying corporations to practically take people hostage.
  - MandieD 5y ago
    Decoupling health insurance contracts from employment is absolutely necessary, though not sufficient. Do it like the UK, do it like Germany, or do something else, but as long as the health insurance contract itself (not just the payment of some or all of it) is through one’s employer, a lot of otherwise financially stable people in the US are utterly at their employers’ mercy.
    - chalst 5y ago
      > HUDSON: This was the one thing that Alan Greenspan contributed to economic theory: the Traumatized Worker Syndrome. He said, the reason you’ve had this huge productivity gain without any wage increase is workers are afraid to go on strike, or even to complain about working conditions, because they’re just one paycheck away from homelessness. https://michael-hudson.com/2016/03/traumatized-worker-syndrome/ https://michael-hudson.com/2016/03/traumatized-worker-syndro...
- bagacrap 5y ago
  above any ethics? You'd kill someone to support your family? Surely not. So there's somewhere you draw the line, you just don't think what Google's doing is that bad.
fishnchips 5y ago
The really interesting stuff is only accessible by a handful of employees. The rest is frankly pretty boring.
onion2k 5y ago
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair
eecc 5y ago
Clarification: I’m not wondering how they managed to keep the human ethics in check, that’s pretty obvious: paying the price for corruption and wrapping it up in legal threats of economically violent retribution. I’m referring to the technological aspect. The amount of air-gapping, leak prevention, no-more-than-need-to-know protocol, opsec is impressive if they managed so far so long.

by eecc 5y ago

phendrenad2 5y ago

Google is known to develop stuff in an RPC-first kind of way. Makes me wonder if higher-ups are able to just write a quick script to do this, without lower level employees even knowing.

tommek4077 5y ago

Because the code itself is much simpler than you would think.

eecc 5y ago
What about the rest; the presentations the executive summaries… all the paperwork that suits babble around… it takes some serious “terrorist organization” opsec to perform like this
- heurist 5y ago
  They have to do that whether they are being evil or not just to prevent competitive intelligence and other damaging info from leaking. So the systems are there

bob1029 5y ago

> How did they keep all the mass of data, the tickets, the user stories and pitch decks from being spilled online and get publicly dressed down? Legal agreements and extremely valuable employment contracts, most likely. My understanding is that some (most?) of the developers out there today are in it for the money. If someone promised you enough income to retire by age 31, and all you had to do was keep your mouth shut for the interim, I think you may comply and even go out of your way a bit to protect your employer. This all explains it in my head. Its not that there is some vast, elaborate conspiracy, its that everyone involved is being heavily-incentivized to do the wrong thing.

latchkey 5y ago
"Don't be evil"
- thedailymail 5y ago
  "Don't get caught."
secondcoming 5y ago
everybody in adtech is in it for the money! Nobody loves ads.
- eclipxe 5y ago
  I actually do enjoy ads. Especially relevant and targeted ones. I enjoy finding out about new and interesting products related to my hobbies (music production).

p2t2p 5y ago

Well, look at me. I’m an immigrant. My wife’s useful skills would probably give her salary of about 5th of what we need, so she doesn’t work and takes care of the kid, house and engages in her hobbies, like making custom teddy bears. If I were put on a project like that I can easily imagine being quiet about it as I put well being of my family waaaay above any ethics. I can imagine that a lot of people do. So the only real way to solve it is robust regulation and good channels for whistleblowers.

awild 5y ago
> So the only real way to solve it is robust regulation and good channels for whistleblowers. And probably some sort of minimal unconditional financial security denying corporations to practically take people hostage.
- MandieD 5y ago
  Decoupling health insurance contracts from employment is absolutely necessary, though not sufficient. Do it like the UK, do it like Germany, or do something else, but as long as the health insurance contract itself (not just the payment of some or all of it) is through one’s employer, a lot of otherwise financially stable people in the US are utterly at their employers’ mercy.
  - chalst 5y ago
    > HUDSON: This was the one thing that Alan Greenspan contributed to economic theory: the Traumatized Worker Syndrome. He said, the reason you’ve had this huge productivity gain without any wage increase is workers are afraid to go on strike, or even to complain about working conditions, because they’re just one paycheck away from homelessness. https://michael-hudson.com/2016/03/traumatized-worker-syndrome/ https://michael-hudson.com/2016/03/traumatized-worker-syndro...
bagacrap 5y ago
above any ethics? You'd kill someone to support your family? Surely not. So there's somewhere you draw the line, you just don't think what Google's doing is that bad.

fishnchips 5y ago

The really interesting stuff is only accessible by a handful of employees. The rest is frankly pretty boring.

onion2k 5y ago

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair

eecc 5y ago

Clarification: I’m not wondering how they managed to keep the human ethics in check, that’s pretty obvious: paying the price for corruption and wrapping it up in legal threats of economically violent retribution. I’m referring to the technological aspect. The amount of air-gapping, leak prevention, no-more-than-need-to-know protocol, opsec is impressive if they managed so far so long.