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>It might be considered unkind to make fun of the dead and dying but arguably such examples are made after the persons own stupidity killed them and the point o
by twofornone 5y ago
>It might be considered unkind to make fun of the dead and dying but arguably such examples are made after the persons own stupidity killed them and the point of the example isn't merely to glory in their death but prevent others from joining them in the grave
You're talking about a virus with a 99.99%+ survival rate in healthy people under 40, not the damn plague. And I know we're not allowed to discuss it, but can you explain why cases are as high as they've ever been in, say, Israel and England, when they're 70-80%+ vaccinated, if these vaccines are so safe and effective? Why does media continue to push the lie that the majority of deaths are in the unvaccinated when official UK data shows vaccinated and unvaccinated death rates at approximate parity with vaccination rate? I.E. the DATA clearly shows that vaccines are not nearly as effective as claimed.
Don't you think it's a little ridiculous that there is effectively no platform outside of 4chan where such questions can even be asked? How is that good for society, to unquestioningly follow the same institutions that have repeatedly and massively blundered while pursuing their own personal financial interests? Do you deny that the authoritarians making this policy are humans like you and I, subject to the same errors and temptations as anyone else?
Informed consent is predicated upon freedom of discussion, of which there effectively is none, because suddenly citizens across the western world are cheering on mass censorship and suppression of the very dissent that is required for a functioning society.
And just as you don't need to be an expert in astrology to understand that it is bunk, you don't need a PHD in virology to see the glaring institutional issues in academia/industry/regulation which cause incentives to align perversely. If it is in fact true that the vaccines are innefective and/or dangerous, there is now the momentum of billions of dollars and tens of thousands of careers and reputations on the line, potentially keeping this fact under wraps. It's not a conspiracy, its emergent pressure. In such a case it is up to laypeople to hold their governments accountable, but instead we are welcoming our own censorship. Something is going to break.
- scrollaway 5y agoYou seem to have gotten sidetracked by an example. Regardless there are plenty of platforms outside of 4chan where you can discuss this. You just need to have some initial trust that people are having good faith discussions. Even here unfortunately almost all the time I’ve seen people bringing up the effectiveness of vaccines, it was to make an antivax point. That’s not good faith, it’s agenda driven trolling.
- twofornone 5y ago> You just need to have some initial trust that people are having good faith discussions >That’s not good faith, it’s agenda driven trolling. Your self-contradiction is an example of part of the problem. There's an assumption that any "anti-vax" (also a dishonest conflation, people are arguing about the covid vaccine, not all vaccines) is automatically in bad faith/part of an agenda/trolling. You only see "anti-vax" posts because pro vax is the default and is the only allowed perspective among submissions. This is what dissent looks like, its not "trolling" or "bad faith". >Regardless there are plenty of platforms outside of 4chan where you can discuss this Nonsense, exactly because of the attitudes like yours. Anything not in line with "safe and effective" propaganda is banned/deleted as "misinformation" or dismissed as "bad faith trolling".
- scrollaway 5y agoYou're applying the same bias to my posts, that you're accusing me of. I've myself been plenty critical of the COVID vaccines and/or rules when it was warranted, and I was able to make my point pretty safely and discuss it without it being dismissed as trolling or deleted as misinformation. So maybe, just maybe, the stuff that is deleted/banned/dismissed is in fact a duck. Because most anti-vax points as argued today on HN are misinformation-driven. If you disagree with that, you've been the victim of misinformation. And if you disagree with that, I can't do anything for you, you have to be open to being wrong sometimes. (And it's easy to turn that last sentence into "yeah well what if YOU'RE wrong". If I am, that is my cross to bear, but I'm absolutely open to it being the case. It doesn't change the above.)