4 ms·

One of the interesting details not mentioned in the book (it's in either one of the appendices or in the Dune Encyclopedia) is that the wings are powered by mus

One of the interesting details not mentioned in the book (it's in either one of the appendices or in the Dune Encyclopedia) is that the wings are powered by muscles, not engines. It's an aspect of the minimal use of technology in that Universe.

sandworm101 5y ago
I wouldn't say a minimal use of tech, more that they use very mature tech. Mature tech 'just works' with minimal intrusion or maintenance. I think of it like home heating systems. Once we all had fires or stoves as central objects in houses. Now we have a switch on a wall connected to a system that can go years without maintenance. Sure, there is an entire industry behind the scenes and some debate the benefits of one tech over another, but the average user only ever sees the switch. So the ornithopter's engines have been replaced by electromechanical muscles because they probably go decades without need of attention.
- carapace 5y ago
  You're right that the technology they use is very mature, but anti-machine stigma is a definite "thing" in the Dune milieu, blowback from the Butlerian Jihad. At one point Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam says something to the Lady Jessica about the difficulties of working with a feudal culture that has "turned it's back on most technology", something like that. Ornithopter muscles are not electromechanical, they're organic.
  - superkuh 5y ago
    >blowback from the Butlerian Jihad. Which itself is a reference to Samuel Butler's 1872 satirical novel "Erewhon" which featured a culture that had banned all complex machines due to an experience with machine intelligences revolting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erewhon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erewhon
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    I think the language re "machines" in the Dune context refers more to thinking devices, computers, than to mechanization.
    - carapace 5y ago
      That's the origin and emphasis of the Butlerian Jihad, for sure, but it seems to me that there's a more general disdain of machines in the galactic culture. Although they certainly do use a lot of machinery: shield generators, poison snoopers, spaceships, etc. so maybe not.
      - PeterisP 5y ago
        On the other hand, in Dune universe we see all that weird machinery used by a very unusual part of the society, the top 0.01%; and even they're not a product of the societies they live in but an import from the partially shunned Ixian community - so we can presume that the ordinary people don't make or use machines nearly as much. E.g. there are some instances of complex electronics, but it seems like most planets e.g. Caladan would have near-zero electronic industry, it doesn't seem that this would be a career option for some random inhabitant of Atreides' home planet to just decide to study electronics and make them.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      True, but allmost all of our modern machines need lots of thinking devices to work.
      - sandworm101 5y ago
        I see lots of calculators that can execute programs (CPUs). I see lots of software that is great a pattern recognition or trend analysis (AI). What I haven't seen are any devices actually thinking through a problem.
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        Depends how you define thinking. I used it in that calculations are "thinking" work.

sandworm101 5y ago

I wouldn't say a minimal use of tech, more that they use very mature tech. Mature tech 'just works' with minimal intrusion or maintenance. I think of it like home heating systems. Once we all had fires or stoves as central objects in houses. Now we have a switch on a wall connected to a system that can go years without maintenance. Sure, there is an entire industry behind the scenes and some debate the benefits of one tech over another, but the average user only ever sees the switch. So the ornithopter's engines have been replaced by electromechanical muscles because they probably go decades without need of attention.

carapace 5y ago
You're right that the technology they use is very mature, but anti-machine stigma is a definite "thing" in the Dune milieu, blowback from the Butlerian Jihad. At one point Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam says something to the Lady Jessica about the difficulties of working with a feudal culture that has "turned it's back on most technology", something like that. Ornithopter muscles are not electromechanical, they're organic.
- superkuh 5y ago
  >blowback from the Butlerian Jihad. Which itself is a reference to Samuel Butler's 1872 satirical novel "Erewhon" which featured a culture that had banned all complex machines due to an experience with machine intelligences revolting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erewhon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erewhon
- sandworm101 5y ago
  I think the language re "machines" in the Dune context refers more to thinking devices, computers, than to mechanization.
  - carapace 5y ago
    That's the origin and emphasis of the Butlerian Jihad, for sure, but it seems to me that there's a more general disdain of machines in the galactic culture. Although they certainly do use a lot of machinery: shield generators, poison snoopers, spaceships, etc. so maybe not.
    - PeterisP 5y ago
      On the other hand, in Dune universe we see all that weird machinery used by a very unusual part of the society, the top 0.01%; and even they're not a product of the societies they live in but an import from the partially shunned Ixian community - so we can presume that the ordinary people don't make or use machines nearly as much. E.g. there are some instances of complex electronics, but it seems like most planets e.g. Caladan would have near-zero electronic industry, it doesn't seem that this would be a career option for some random inhabitant of Atreides' home planet to just decide to study electronics and make them.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    True, but allmost all of our modern machines need lots of thinking devices to work.
    - sandworm101 5y ago
      I see lots of calculators that can execute programs (CPUs). I see lots of software that is great a pattern recognition or trend analysis (AI). What I haven't seen are any devices actually thinking through a problem.
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        Depends how you define thinking. I used it in that calculations are "thinking" work.