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Bitcoin has become something people want to happen. It is being propped up by belief. In many ways it is fake it until you make it. And it may well make it e

Bitcoin has become something people want to happen. It is being propped up by belief. In many ways it is fake it until you make it. And it may well make it eventually. This is similar to tether. Tether has been fraudulent in its claims but it also is growing and can outgrow its fraud so that it becomes mature and fully backed. Again a fake it until you make it. Basically belief and patience on the part of the holders is allowing bitcoin and tether time to become real. Paradoxical to a degree but this is what is happening. People are right it has no intrinsic value or tether is a fraud but over time if they are allowed to grow they can outgrown this. So everyone is right. As long as the government doesn’t outlaw crypto here in the us. This is the main way it dies I think. Given the us gov tends to be beholden to special interest and bitcoin is a rich special interest I think it has at least a chance of survival.

throw0101a 5y ago
> Bitcoin has become something people want to happen. It is being propped up by belief. All "money" is propped up by belief (in its value for exchange). The 'disadvantage' of BTC (and gold) is that it is inflexible and it takes resources to create. Some people—'hard money' folks—think of this as a positive trait.
- rufusroflpunch 5y ago
  I am one of those hard money people. The work secures the network. In order to alter the ledger, you need to reverse not just one block, but every block after it, means you would have to redo the work for every single block. All the while, the rest of the network keep working along the real chain, mining new blocks. The work makes it impossible to alter the chain.
- AnonC 5y ago
  Fiat currencies also take a lot of resources to create — human and computing resources (to define and create the money out of some calculations, be it a central bank for policy reasons or a private bank for fractional reserve banking reasons), physical elements and molecules for currency bills, infrastructure to handle electronic payments, settlements, reversals, etc. It’s all so widely distributed that people don’t think of the costs. I have seen contrary arguments on the enormous amount of energy used to create Bitcoin. Is there a good comparison showing the real (material) costs of fiat currency vs. Bitcoin?
- ekianjo 5y ago
  > All "money" is propped up by belief (in its value for exchange). Nope, it's propped up by a government who is forcing it on you, whether you believe in its value or not. It's not like you have a choice not to use the <national currency where you live> in most countries. You can't ask your employer to pay you in anything else but the government-approved currency either.
  - ashwagary 5y ago
    Many employers pay people in Bitcoin on request, tech companies like Square and LN Strike are making this easier to do. I can think of at least a dozen NBA and NFL athletes using these services to get paid in Bitcoin.
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      > I can think of at least a dozen NBA and NFL athletes using these services to get paid in Bitcoin. A dozen! That is surely a threat to the US economy at large. You can rest assured that if this were to become commonplace for let's say, something in the range of a million workers, the government would outlaw it in no time.
      - ashwagary 5y ago
        >You can't ask your employer to pay you in anything else but the government-approved currency either. >A dozen! Don't move the goalposts when easily proven wrong. It's bad form... They can't outlaw it without tremendous backlash at this point. Adoption is happening at the local/state level and starting to accelerate at the institutional level. Banks and public companies control legislators and many now have long Bitcoin positions...
    - sidibe 5y ago
      The dollar and other government-backed currencies will always be in demand because even if you are paid in bitcoin your taxes are paid in dollars.
      - 5y ago
dehrmann 5y ago
> Bitcoin has become something people want to happen. 99% of Bitcoin holders just want to make money, hopefully get rich. They're not concerned with if Bitcoin the currency happens, but it's a story they like to tell themselves.
emerged 5y ago
So you’re saying a new currency wants to supplant the US dollar, and the only thing that can stop it is the US government? Hold on, going to make a phone call to the US government.

throw0101a 5y ago

> Bitcoin has become something people want to happen. It is being propped up by belief. All "money" is propped up by belief (in its value for exchange). The 'disadvantage' of BTC (and gold) is that it is inflexible and it takes resources to create. Some people—'hard money' folks—think of this as a positive trait.

rufusroflpunch 5y ago
I am one of those hard money people. The work secures the network. In order to alter the ledger, you need to reverse not just one block, but every block after it, means you would have to redo the work for every single block. All the while, the rest of the network keep working along the real chain, mining new blocks. The work makes it impossible to alter the chain.
AnonC 5y ago
Fiat currencies also take a lot of resources to create — human and computing resources (to define and create the money out of some calculations, be it a central bank for policy reasons or a private bank for fractional reserve banking reasons), physical elements and molecules for currency bills, infrastructure to handle electronic payments, settlements, reversals, etc. It’s all so widely distributed that people don’t think of the costs. I have seen contrary arguments on the enormous amount of energy used to create Bitcoin. Is there a good comparison showing the real (material) costs of fiat currency vs. Bitcoin?
ekianjo 5y ago
> All "money" is propped up by belief (in its value for exchange). Nope, it's propped up by a government who is forcing it on you, whether you believe in its value or not. It's not like you have a choice not to use the <national currency where you live> in most countries. You can't ask your employer to pay you in anything else but the government-approved currency either.
- ashwagary 5y ago
  Many employers pay people in Bitcoin on request, tech companies like Square and LN Strike are making this easier to do. I can think of at least a dozen NBA and NFL athletes using these services to get paid in Bitcoin.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    > I can think of at least a dozen NBA and NFL athletes using these services to get paid in Bitcoin. A dozen! That is surely a threat to the US economy at large. You can rest assured that if this were to become commonplace for let's say, something in the range of a million workers, the government would outlaw it in no time.
    - ashwagary 5y ago
      >You can't ask your employer to pay you in anything else but the government-approved currency either. >A dozen! Don't move the goalposts when easily proven wrong. It's bad form... They can't outlaw it without tremendous backlash at this point. Adoption is happening at the local/state level and starting to accelerate at the institutional level. Banks and public companies control legislators and many now have long Bitcoin positions...
  - sidibe 5y ago
    The dollar and other government-backed currencies will always be in demand because even if you are paid in bitcoin your taxes are paid in dollars.
    - 5y ago

dehrmann 5y ago

> Bitcoin has become something people want to happen. 99% of Bitcoin holders just want to make money, hopefully get rich. They're not concerned with if Bitcoin the currency happens, but it's a story they like to tell themselves.

emerged 5y ago

So you’re saying a new currency wants to supplant the US dollar, and the only thing that can stop it is the US government? Hold on, going to make a phone call to the US government.