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> Honestly, I think that my peers without kids who work crazy hours are, simply put, suckers. I've seen these people get much more work done than their peers (

> Honestly, I think that my peers without kids who work crazy hours are, simply put, suckers. I've seen these people get much more work done than their peers (sometimes) and get compensated with higher salary and promotions. They might be suckers, or they might be prioritizing money or experience while they still have a lifestyle that can support it. So passing judgment by calling them "suckers" seems kind of ignorant IMO.

tharkun__ 5y ago
The problem is when these people only get more done because they work more hours for the same money. They basically lower their own salary. I can totally understand this for someone that is paid hourly and wants to get overtime pay to have enough money to fix their car. But our context here is usually highly paid, salaried tech jobs. If I work more hours I can also get more done. I don't want to though and that has nothing to do with children or family. I've never in my life worked more for free. I sometimes work more when something needs doing but then I take extra time off somewhere else. So far no issues with promotions or anything else like that. All my bosses understood that this is a money transaction. They give me flexibility to come in late, leave early, have a dentist appointment in the middle of the day etc and I'm flexible too. Production is burning at 5pm? Of course I don't leave even if I have a date later that night. EDIT for clarity: if someone takes a 40h job for 100k and works 80h weeks they have now effectively lowered the market rate and their own salary to 50k. Why anyone would do that is beyond me especially since I see the same people complain about "H1Bs undercutting them" .
Waterluvian 5y ago
Those people are at the mercy of their employer who gets to decide if all their free work deserves a raise or promotion. It’s not a great system.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Who else should decide if the sum total of their accomplishments warrant a raise or promotion?
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  I didn't realize that my employer can hold the skills I gain by working hostage. "free work" is a really weird way to word what I would consider as learning.
glitchc 5y ago
They’re not suckers if they get raises and/or promotions. Then they are being fairly compensated for their time and commitment, and have no reason to complain, right? It’s only a problem if there’s no reward for all that extra work.
- gruez 5y ago
  Well then you have the opposite problem. "employees with kids are being paid 20% less than their non-kid-having counterparts. what type of discriminatory policy is causing this?"
  - glitchc 5y ago
    I know I'm going to catch flack for saying this, but married men rarely complain about this. They usually know they're not working as hard as their single, or otherwise less family-occupied, counterparts and as such cannot expect the same career trajectory. It's a trade-off and usually a conscious one.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Or maybe they like what they do and don't have much else going on, and are happy to fill their time with more work.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    That would make them suckers.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      I literally write programs in my spare time for free. Perhaps that makes me the ultimate sucker. If I do some of that for my employer out of my own free will, it’s no worse.

tharkun__ 5y ago

The problem is when these people only get more done because they work more hours for the same money. They basically lower their own salary. I can totally understand this for someone that is paid hourly and wants to get overtime pay to have enough money to fix their car. But our context here is usually highly paid, salaried tech jobs. If I work more hours I can also get more done. I don't want to though and that has nothing to do with children or family. I've never in my life worked more for free. I sometimes work more when something needs doing but then I take extra time off somewhere else. So far no issues with promotions or anything else like that. All my bosses understood that this is a money transaction. They give me flexibility to come in late, leave early, have a dentist appointment in the middle of the day etc and I'm flexible too. Production is burning at 5pm? Of course I don't leave even if I have a date later that night. EDIT for clarity: if someone takes a 40h job for 100k and works 80h weeks they have now effectively lowered the market rate and their own salary to 50k. Why anyone would do that is beyond me especially since I see the same people complain about "H1Bs undercutting them" .

Waterluvian 5y ago

Those people are at the mercy of their employer who gets to decide if all their free work deserves a raise or promotion. It’s not a great system.

sokoloff 5y ago
Who else should decide if the sum total of their accomplishments warrant a raise or promotion?
ZephyrBlu 5y ago
I didn't realize that my employer can hold the skills I gain by working hostage. "free work" is a really weird way to word what I would consider as learning.

glitchc 5y ago

They’re not suckers if they get raises and/or promotions. Then they are being fairly compensated for their time and commitment, and have no reason to complain, right? It’s only a problem if there’s no reward for all that extra work.

gruez 5y ago
Well then you have the opposite problem. "employees with kids are being paid 20% less than their non-kid-having counterparts. what type of discriminatory policy is causing this?"
- glitchc 5y ago
  I know I'm going to catch flack for saying this, but married men rarely complain about this. They usually know they're not working as hard as their single, or otherwise less family-occupied, counterparts and as such cannot expect the same career trajectory. It's a trade-off and usually a conscious one.
throwawayboise 5y ago
Or maybe they like what they do and don't have much else going on, and are happy to fill their time with more work.
- XorNot 5y ago
  That would make them suckers.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I literally write programs in my spare time for free. Perhaps that makes me the ultimate sucker. If I do some of that for my employer out of my own free will, it’s no worse.