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HN's perception of what's going in the decentralization and crypto sphere - commonly grouped under the "web3" moniker - is startlingly out of touch. There is in

HN's perception of what's going in the decentralization and crypto sphere - commonly grouped under the "web3" moniker - is startlingly out of touch. There is incredible engineering going on and I know it's hard to see past the cryptobro noise, but the cypherpunk thing we all fetishized in our early years is happening _now_, not in the 80s and 90s.

SXX 5y ago
I am actually involved in web3 app development, but do you have any examples of where any of this engineering even applyable to real world problems? I see a lot of potencial, but so far only real use I see is crypto being good financial system replacement for people living in failed state / authoritarian regimes. It's enough to justify it's existence, but who suppose to want web3-powered tech in countries with working law? And why?
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  I think decentralized identity has a lot of potential. Using a web3 app was kind of an eye-opening experience to me - I didn't make an account, and the developer of the app isn't managing the data involved. There's tradeoffs here from a usability and security standpoint(now I'm responsible for everything and nobody can help me if I lose my keys). But I think this stands some existing preconceptions about the way the web _has_ to work(just because it always has worked that way) on their head.
  - acdha 5y ago
    The three questions I always ask for an identity solution: 1. What's the barrier to using your app? Past experience suggests that large numbers of people will drop off as difficulty ramps up unless you're either giving away money or gate-keeping something people have to use (e.g. your insurance company's signup process can be terrible up to the point that you switch). 2. Who handles impersonation? (e.g. how do you keep someone from making the news by registering “donaldjtrump” and posting something?) 3. Who handles user error or compromise? e.g. if my phone or laptop is stolen, how screwed am I?
    - knownjorbist 5y ago
      1. The barrier is using a wallet of some kind. For me this difficulty kind of goes both ways - one, we've primed everyone already to expect to "sign up" for an account as it is, but in this realm they only need a wallet(a one-time operation). You go to a web3 site and click "connect wallet", approve, and that's it. In order to actually _do_ anything in terms of mutating your wallet's state, you have to willingly accept the transaction. 2. Impersonation depends on the application in question. It is a subject with a lot of attention, and I've seen varying proposed solutions for "proof of uniqueness". This is a good jumping off point imo: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/business/identity-access-management/decentralized-identity-blockchain https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/business/identity-a... 3. This is where things diverge sharply from "web2". There is no "forgot password" or support infrastructure that can come to the rescue. At this current moment you are screwed. But there are some promising ideas that could address this - look into "social recovery".
acdha 5y ago
Do you have any examples?
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  Examples of what in particular?
  - acdha 5y ago
    The incredible engineering solving real problems better than before? There's so much noise that it's hard to find people shipping solutions for real problems rather than describing a hypothetical future state.
    - knownjorbist 5y ago
      Part of the issue might be that there aren't a lot of conventional problems being addressed here in the same way that relational databases or spreadsheets addressed the problems of the business world of the day. A lot of the engineering going on that's impressed me has centered around DAO operations. If 10 years ago someone told me that there'd be multi-billion-dollar treasuries governing themselves without a conventional leadership structure, I wouldn't have believed them. There are obviously problems with some of these manifestations to date, but there's also an unbelievable amount of effort being put into them. I recommend you check out how Shapeshift(a formerly private company, now DAO) is structured.

SXX 5y ago

I am actually involved in web3 app development, but do you have any examples of where any of this engineering even applyable to real world problems? I see a lot of potencial, but so far only real use I see is crypto being good financial system replacement for people living in failed state / authoritarian regimes. It's enough to justify it's existence, but who suppose to want web3-powered tech in countries with working law? And why?

knownjorbist 5y ago
I think decentralized identity has a lot of potential. Using a web3 app was kind of an eye-opening experience to me - I didn't make an account, and the developer of the app isn't managing the data involved. There's tradeoffs here from a usability and security standpoint(now I'm responsible for everything and nobody can help me if I lose my keys). But I think this stands some existing preconceptions about the way the web _has_ to work(just because it always has worked that way) on their head.
- acdha 5y ago
  The three questions I always ask for an identity solution: 1. What's the barrier to using your app? Past experience suggests that large numbers of people will drop off as difficulty ramps up unless you're either giving away money or gate-keeping something people have to use (e.g. your insurance company's signup process can be terrible up to the point that you switch). 2. Who handles impersonation? (e.g. how do you keep someone from making the news by registering “donaldjtrump” and posting something?) 3. Who handles user error or compromise? e.g. if my phone or laptop is stolen, how screwed am I?
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    1. The barrier is using a wallet of some kind. For me this difficulty kind of goes both ways - one, we've primed everyone already to expect to "sign up" for an account as it is, but in this realm they only need a wallet(a one-time operation). You go to a web3 site and click "connect wallet", approve, and that's it. In order to actually _do_ anything in terms of mutating your wallet's state, you have to willingly accept the transaction. 2. Impersonation depends on the application in question. It is a subject with a lot of attention, and I've seen varying proposed solutions for "proof of uniqueness". This is a good jumping off point imo: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/business/identity-access-management/decentralized-identity-blockchain https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/business/identity-a... 3. This is where things diverge sharply from "web2". There is no "forgot password" or support infrastructure that can come to the rescue. At this current moment you are screwed. But there are some promising ideas that could address this - look into "social recovery".

acdha 5y ago

Do you have any examples?

knownjorbist 5y ago
Examples of what in particular?
- acdha 5y ago
  The incredible engineering solving real problems better than before? There's so much noise that it's hard to find people shipping solutions for real problems rather than describing a hypothetical future state.
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    Part of the issue might be that there aren't a lot of conventional problems being addressed here in the same way that relational databases or spreadsheets addressed the problems of the business world of the day. A lot of the engineering going on that's impressed me has centered around DAO operations. If 10 years ago someone told me that there'd be multi-billion-dollar treasuries governing themselves without a conventional leadership structure, I wouldn't have believed them. There are obviously problems with some of these manifestations to date, but there's also an unbelievable amount of effort being put into them. I recommend you check out how Shapeshift(a formerly private company, now DAO) is structured.