6 ms·

It is already a lot more like Reddit than it used to be just a few years ago. For example, the comments on some submissions are full of stupid jokes now, gradua

It is already a lot more like Reddit than it used to be just a few years ago. For example, the comments on some submissions are full of stupid jokes now, gradually drowning out actually interesting discussion. IMO HN was better when it was dry, boring, and insightful. It is less and less of that every year. Example from this very submission: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28962122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28962122 I'm sure there are more people who want to see these content-free comments than not. That's exactly why Reddit is full of them, and why HN was special.

dang 5y ago
The perception that HN is trending Redditward has been around for so long, it even predates HN itself! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852 Of course there are vectors pointing that way, and datapoints on those vectors, but there are also countervailing forces. I think after 14+ years we can at least say it's not collapsing. That's the reason for the final guideline of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (note those carefully curated links! I spent an afternoon on that.)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- clusterfish 5y ago
  I didn't say that HN is collapsing, just that the signal to noise ratio is noticeably (to me) going down over time. Slowly, but with huge inertia. If there's truly some illusion going on, I'm not sure what the mechanism would be.
  - dang 5y ago
    The mechanism would be whatever cognitive bias makes it seem like things are always getting worse. I think nostalgia plays into this, and also status—everyone enjoys feeling superior to late-comers. It's one status you can never lose! I think the fact that people have literally been making the same complaint over and over about how HN is turning into Reddit since literally before it was even called HN is strong evidence (not proof, but strong evidence) that that perception is bogus. Had it ever been true, HN would have become dramatically different a long time ago. Not only the perception but the phrases people use to express it have been unchanged for almost 15 years. That's an internet eternity.
wolverine876 5y ago
> It is already a lot more like Reddit than it used to be just a few years ago. From the Guidelines: > Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills. Last few words are linked: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=633099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=633099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=582513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=582513 And three more, but I have other things to do.
- NewEntryHN 5y ago
  "Don't say HN is turning into Reddit, because it has consistently been so from the start"?
- clusterfish 5y ago
  What are these old comments supposed to show? That it has been happening for a long time? I'm not disputing that. I was reading HN in 2009, but I don't remember how it was back then. I do remember how it was a few years ago, and the difference to today is obvious, to me. Trying to silence this opinion is not going to make it less valid, you know.
kristopolous 5y ago
> I'm sure there are more people who want to see these content-free comments than not Two rules of thumb about how this stuff works: * Never underestimate the number of children on the internet * Never underestimate the number of people intoxicated/high on the internet Using those as a guide, lots of popularity metrics make sense. It's mostly like real life, if your community can avoid attracting children or people actively doing drugs, it'll mostly be fine. Reddit decided at its redesign point to pull hard and accelerate to both these groups as fast as possible. Slashdot is kind of interesting. After floundering for maybe 2 decades it's starting to get a new focus as effectively legitimate tech journalism.
- rdiddly 5y ago
  I'm neither high nor a child, yet I like making and reading jokes. Human beings like them. They reflect well on the jokemaker's creativity, spontaneity, and ability to improvise. They test the reader's ability to tolerate ambiguity and the unexpected. You will tend to like them less, the worse you are at it, the more you're caught up in playing a status game ("I'm way too mature and serious for these 'jokes'") and the more closely you resemble the machines we work with.
  - kristopolous 5y ago
    Absolutely. The problem is one of dominant forcing not of constituent coexistence. Digital spaces are like physical spaces. Intentional social rules dictate that say, punching people is ok at a boxing gym and not a library. Spaces are always created through a stochastic collaboration of randomness and intent The randomness part is controlled by who's coming in and staying through the physical or digital door and part of the intent is what kind of randomness is being actively invited. Alright, back to the brass tax. Most people with the capability of building such communities and dictating such rules surround themselves in their physical spaces with a narrow range of people that completely misrepresent the internet audience as a whole. Because nobody knows if you're a dog on the internet, the creators can go quite a long time before realizing the community they've built is populated by say middle school children. Keeping in mind that Everyone is on the net and what that actually means is a really important part of creating such spaces. One of reddit's aha moments happened about maybe 8 years ago and I wish I could find the article. After a site wide audit they banned a number of child pornography subreddits that had become quite popular. But after further investigation they discovered it wasn't adult pedophiles posting photographs of others but teenagers posting their own self produced content. It was a big self reflection for them on the question of "who have you brought on your platform and what are they doing in it?" Is it a boxing gym, a brothel, a bar, a bureaucracy? Better figure it out

dang 5y ago

The perception that HN is trending Redditward has been around for so long, it even predates HN itself! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852 Of course there are vectors pointing that way, and datapoints on those vectors, but there are also countervailing forces. I think after 14+ years we can at least say it's not collapsing. That's the reason for the final guideline of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (note those carefully curated links! I spent an afternoon on that.)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
clusterfish 5y ago
I didn't say that HN is collapsing, just that the signal to noise ratio is noticeably (to me) going down over time. Slowly, but with huge inertia. If there's truly some illusion going on, I'm not sure what the mechanism would be.
- dang 5y ago
  The mechanism would be whatever cognitive bias makes it seem like things are always getting worse. I think nostalgia plays into this, and also status—everyone enjoys feeling superior to late-comers. It's one status you can never lose! I think the fact that people have literally been making the same complaint over and over about how HN is turning into Reddit since literally before it was even called HN is strong evidence (not proof, but strong evidence) that that perception is bogus. Had it ever been true, HN would have become dramatically different a long time ago. Not only the perception but the phrases people use to express it have been unchanged for almost 15 years. That's an internet eternity.

wolverine876 5y ago

> It is already a lot more like Reddit than it used to be just a few years ago. From the Guidelines: > Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills. Last few words are linked: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=633099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=633099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=582513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=582513 And three more, but I have other things to do.

NewEntryHN 5y ago
"Don't say HN is turning into Reddit, because it has consistently been so from the start"?
clusterfish 5y ago
What are these old comments supposed to show? That it has been happening for a long time? I'm not disputing that. I was reading HN in 2009, but I don't remember how it was back then. I do remember how it was a few years ago, and the difference to today is obvious, to me. Trying to silence this opinion is not going to make it less valid, you know.

kristopolous 5y ago

> I'm sure there are more people who want to see these content-free comments than not Two rules of thumb about how this stuff works: * Never underestimate the number of children on the internet * Never underestimate the number of people intoxicated/high on the internet Using those as a guide, lots of popularity metrics make sense. It's mostly like real life, if your community can avoid attracting children or people actively doing drugs, it'll mostly be fine. Reddit decided at its redesign point to pull hard and accelerate to both these groups as fast as possible. Slashdot is kind of interesting. After floundering for maybe 2 decades it's starting to get a new focus as effectively legitimate tech journalism.

rdiddly 5y ago
I'm neither high nor a child, yet I like making and reading jokes. Human beings like them. They reflect well on the jokemaker's creativity, spontaneity, and ability to improvise. They test the reader's ability to tolerate ambiguity and the unexpected. You will tend to like them less, the worse you are at it, the more you're caught up in playing a status game ("I'm way too mature and serious for these 'jokes'") and the more closely you resemble the machines we work with.
- kristopolous 5y ago
  Absolutely. The problem is one of dominant forcing not of constituent coexistence. Digital spaces are like physical spaces. Intentional social rules dictate that say, punching people is ok at a boxing gym and not a library. Spaces are always created through a stochastic collaboration of randomness and intent The randomness part is controlled by who's coming in and staying through the physical or digital door and part of the intent is what kind of randomness is being actively invited. Alright, back to the brass tax. Most people with the capability of building such communities and dictating such rules surround themselves in their physical spaces with a narrow range of people that completely misrepresent the internet audience as a whole. Because nobody knows if you're a dog on the internet, the creators can go quite a long time before realizing the community they've built is populated by say middle school children. Keeping in mind that Everyone is on the net and what that actually means is a really important part of creating such spaces. One of reddit's aha moments happened about maybe 8 years ago and I wish I could find the article. After a site wide audit they banned a number of child pornography subreddits that had become quite popular. But after further investigation they discovered it wasn't adult pedophiles posting photographs of others but teenagers posting their own self produced content. It was a big self reflection for them on the question of "who have you brought on your platform and what are they doing in it?" Is it a boxing gym, a brothel, a bar, a bureaucracy? Better figure it out