4 ms·

Seems to be full of finance-obcessed man-children and brogrammers.

by yissp 5y ago

philosopher1234 5y ago
I wonder what their take on racism in America is… oh… never mind…
- dang 5y ago
  HN is divided on topics where society at large is divided, just like any large-enough population sample. There's no "their" there, and defining the whole by the part you most dislike is a cognitive bias (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20dislike%20notice&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...) - a common one. The people you disagree with are complaining just as much about how your side dominates. If there's a difference with HN, it's that the site is non-siloed, meaning everyone's in one big room, so you're more likely to run into people and views you deplore than on other sites where you choose in advance whom to follow. I believe that's to HN's credit, at least for those who believe in communication as opposed to just smiting enemies. But it's a credit that people usually experience as a defect, because it can be so unpleasant to run into. I wrote about this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098. Usually when I mention society being divided, people assume it's about polarization in the U.S., which is true. But it's worse than that, because HN is a highly international site. I can tell you that cross-national and cross-cultural divisions are at least as much of a stress, and much less understood. People often misinterpret and assume that they're dealing with an extremist next door when they're actually talking to someone on the other side of the world. In person, we automatically recognize and modulate such situations; even when we find someone's views abhorrent, we're more willing to take into account their different background, realize they're not working with the same information that we are, and go for persuasion and explanation rather than jump into aggression and battle. But on an internet text forum where nearly everyone has excellent English, people are at the mercy of these misunderstandings and don't even realize it.
  - er4hn 5y ago
    > In person, we automatically recognize and modulate such situations; even when we find someone's views abhorrent, we're more willing to take into account their different background, realize they're not working with the same information that we are, and go for persuasion and education rather than jumping straight into aggression and battle. But on an internet text forum where nearly everyone has excellent English, people are at the mercy of these misunderstandings and don't even realize it. I really love this insight. It's something that we see so often on here as a point around Twitter, Facebook, and engagement. Mark Twain's quote about leaving your house (sure it was your community at the time) still rings true today: “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”
  - philosopher1234 5y ago
    I appreciate the response, and yes I was being snarky. That said, I don’t think this is simply a matter of HN being divided the same way society is divided. HN has a bias in favor of capital, which I think is pretty observable in a typical thread on e.g startups, and if you don’t share my observation you can agree this is at least likely given the high rate of tech workers and would be investors on this site. I think open discussions of race and racism can be threatening to capital, particularly when one wants to believe that the system is good and just. Discussions of race usually have large societal change as their stakes, and that is not always to the benefit of the currently wealthy. There is a claimed interest in open dialogue on HN, but it doesn’t go as deep as it seems. The HN community has rules about what counts as valid logic or what is appealing and worthy of upvote that favor the status quote. Further, because the population bends a particular direction you need to put in massive effort in order to make a point that contradicts this view, or else you will be swarmed with criticisms, which may be defeatable, but in sum are overwhelming. There are also tactics that are commonly employed in HN comments which shut down discussion but allow the commenter to retain the position of the rational freedom lover. I can’t prove it to you without much more time and knowledge than I have, but I think it is none the less true that HN has a culture with a bias, and that it tends towards maintaining the status quo and shutting down revolutionary dialogues.
simonh 5y ago
Minimalist version of Slashdot. Meh.

Seems to be full of finance-obcessed man-children and brogrammers.

by yissp 5y ago

Seems to be full of finance-obcessed man-children and brogrammers.

philosopher1234 5y ago

I wonder what their take on racism in America is… oh… never mind…

dang 5y ago
HN is divided on topics where society at large is divided, just like any large-enough population sample. There's no "their" there, and defining the whole by the part you most dislike is a cognitive bias (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20dislike%20notice&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...) - a common one. The people you disagree with are complaining just as much about how your side dominates. If there's a difference with HN, it's that the site is non-siloed, meaning everyone's in one big room, so you're more likely to run into people and views you deplore than on other sites where you choose in advance whom to follow. I believe that's to HN's credit, at least for those who believe in communication as opposed to just smiting enemies. But it's a credit that people usually experience as a defect, because it can be so unpleasant to run into. I wrote about this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098. Usually when I mention society being divided, people assume it's about polarization in the U.S., which is true. But it's worse than that, because HN is a highly international site. I can tell you that cross-national and cross-cultural divisions are at least as much of a stress, and much less understood. People often misinterpret and assume that they're dealing with an extremist next door when they're actually talking to someone on the other side of the world. In person, we automatically recognize and modulate such situations; even when we find someone's views abhorrent, we're more willing to take into account their different background, realize they're not working with the same information that we are, and go for persuasion and explanation rather than jump into aggression and battle. But on an internet text forum where nearly everyone has excellent English, people are at the mercy of these misunderstandings and don't even realize it.
- er4hn 5y ago
  > In person, we automatically recognize and modulate such situations; even when we find someone's views abhorrent, we're more willing to take into account their different background, realize they're not working with the same information that we are, and go for persuasion and education rather than jumping straight into aggression and battle. But on an internet text forum where nearly everyone has excellent English, people are at the mercy of these misunderstandings and don't even realize it. I really love this insight. It's something that we see so often on here as a point around Twitter, Facebook, and engagement. Mark Twain's quote about leaving your house (sure it was your community at the time) still rings true today: “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”
- philosopher1234 5y ago
  I appreciate the response, and yes I was being snarky. That said, I don’t think this is simply a matter of HN being divided the same way society is divided. HN has a bias in favor of capital, which I think is pretty observable in a typical thread on e.g startups, and if you don’t share my observation you can agree this is at least likely given the high rate of tech workers and would be investors on this site. I think open discussions of race and racism can be threatening to capital, particularly when one wants to believe that the system is good and just. Discussions of race usually have large societal change as their stakes, and that is not always to the benefit of the currently wealthy. There is a claimed interest in open dialogue on HN, but it doesn’t go as deep as it seems. The HN community has rules about what counts as valid logic or what is appealing and worthy of upvote that favor the status quote. Further, because the population bends a particular direction you need to put in massive effort in order to make a point that contradicts this view, or else you will be swarmed with criticisms, which may be defeatable, but in sum are overwhelming. There are also tactics that are commonly employed in HN comments which shut down discussion but allow the commenter to retain the position of the rational freedom lover. I can’t prove it to you without much more time and knowledge than I have, but I think it is none the less true that HN has a culture with a bias, and that it tends towards maintaining the status quo and shutting down revolutionary dialogues.

simonh 5y ago

Minimalist version of Slashdot. Meh.