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Thank you for the comments! My point wasn't to show how wasteful or bad rainbow tables are. My point was that brute forcing is actually significantly easier t
by ircmaxell 15y ago
Thank you for the comments! My point wasn't to show how wasteful or bad rainbow tables are. My point was that brute forcing is actually significantly easier than people realize (to the point of being almost as efficient as rainbow tables depending on the circumstances). And since any standard measure that prevents brute forcing will also help prevent rainbow tables, the point that I was trying to convey is that you should not try to protect against rainbow tables exclusively, but you should try to protect against brute forcing and get the rainbow table protection that comes naturally from that step...
With respect to the 4 character password limitation, that was mainly to show how powerful brute forcing can be, not how bad rainbow tables are.
Sure, you can make a dictionary rainbow table based off a normal english dictionary with perturbations (caps/symbol replacements) and have it be more efficient than a brute force for any size. But I was looking at it form a guaranteed match aspect, not a "probable match". So for a guaranteed match against an 8 character password, the rainbow table would have to be gigantic, but brute forcing would likely not take as much time.
Perhaps I should have presented it a bit differently. But I purposely wanted to take the worst case approach to demonstrate just how efficient brute forcing can be. If that painted a slightly tainted picture, then fine. But I think it got the point across (although how it got it across has been questioned)...
- nkurz 15y agoI appreciate your response. I still disagree with your basic premise. The difficulty with making large Rainbow Tables is not the storage space, but the time necessary to create the initial table. Faster GPU's make Rainbow Tables more effective for large password spaces, not less. The size of the table can be arbitrarily reduced by using longer chains. The real limiting factor is the time to generate the initial table, which is comparable to making a single brute force search. The theory is beyond my ability to explain, but as a practical example, this page might be useful: http://ophcrack.sourceforge.net/tables.php http://ophcrack.sourceforge.net/tables.php It's not an exact match up, but look at "Vista 7" table. For complete coverage of a 95 character set (not sure how you calculated 77 printable ASCII) up to 7 characters, they require 36 GB instead of the 417 TB you propose. Since theirs ships and works, I'm inclined to believe that your theory is in error. Also, I could be mistaken, but I don't think there is such a thing as a "Dictionary Rainbow Table". You can choose any character set you want, but because of the way the algorithm works I don't think you can restrict to a prechosen word set.