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which is funny because that's exactly how ALSA was started: https://lobste.rs/s/moflv5/freebsd_audio_from_perspective_happy#c_mqvroo https://lobste.rs/s/moflv5/

which is funny because that's exactly how ALSA was started: https://lobste.rs/s/moflv5/freebsd_audio_from_perspective_happy#c_mqvroo https://lobste.rs/s/moflv5/freebsd_audio_from_perspective_ha...

md8z 5y ago
That comment is somewhat problematic and I went into detail about it last week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28856907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28856907
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Great comment. Sorry that I missed this at the time.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
I've been developing audio & MIDI software for Linux since about 1997. Maybe that makes me a special case, but none of the experience described by the post is familiar to me. I even used to use xmms with ALSA. There's some acorns of truth in that account, but it's been turned into a paragraph of hand-waving half-truth.
oblio 5y ago
That's hilarious. And sad. https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html Copy paste the link. Or: > I'm so totally impressed at this Way New Development Paradigm. Let's call it the "Cascade of Attention-Deficit Teenagers" model, or "CADT" for short. > It hardly seems worth even having a bug system if the frequency of from-scratch rewrites always outstrips the pace of bug fixing. Why not be honest and resign yourself to the fact that version 0.8 is followed by version 0.8, which is then followed by version 0.8? > But that's what happens when there is no incentive for people to do the parts of programming that aren't fun. Fixing bugs isn't fun; going through the bug list isn't fun; but rewriting everything from scratch is fun (because "this time it will be done right", ha ha) and so that's what happens, over and over again.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  The 3rd quoted point.... if applying it the Linux audio stack then ... this is so absolutely fucking disrespectful to people like Takashi Iwai, who has spent 20 years fixing bugs and doing so much "un-fun" work on ALSA. Y'all can vent on Lennart as much as you want, but every time you do you forget the heroes who have worked out of the spotlight, doing the boring grunt work that has kept ALSA working for two decades as audio hardware has changed dramatically.
  - oblio 5y ago
    How would my quote apply to people who do that kind of work? The whole article is about people that <<don't>> do that.
    - md8z 5y ago
      It's pretty rude to insult someone by calling them an "attention deficit teenager" regardless of what they're working on. I would recommend against quoting that article.
      - bmn__ 5y ago
        I see you chose to ignore what prompted the rant. Is it deliberate?
        md8z 5y ago
        I generally try to avoid responding to rants because every time I do that, the author gets angry and starts complaining at me. In my experience, people who rant are just frustrated and blowing off steam, and are not trying to be taken seriously or start a constructive dialogue. If a person actually has some leadership/direction and a solid grasp on the full picture then there is no need to rant. But you may want to read my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28856907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28856907
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

which is funny because that's exactly how ALSA was started: https://lobste.rs/s/moflv5/freebsd_audio_from_perspective_happy#c_mqvroo https://lobste.rs/s/moflv5/freebsd_audio_from_perspective_ha...

md8z 5y ago

That comment is somewhat problematic and I went into detail about it last week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28856907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28856907

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
Great comment. Sorry that I missed this at the time.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

I've been developing audio & MIDI software for Linux since about 1997. Maybe that makes me a special case, but none of the experience described by the post is familiar to me. I even used to use xmms with ALSA. There's some acorns of truth in that account, but it's been turned into a paragraph of hand-waving half-truth.

oblio 5y ago

That's hilarious. And sad. https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html Copy paste the link. Or: > I'm so totally impressed at this Way New Development Paradigm. Let's call it the "Cascade of Attention-Deficit Teenagers" model, or "CADT" for short. > It hardly seems worth even having a bug system if the frequency of from-scratch rewrites always outstrips the pace of bug fixing. Why not be honest and resign yourself to the fact that version 0.8 is followed by version 0.8, which is then followed by version 0.8? > But that's what happens when there is no incentive for people to do the parts of programming that aren't fun. Fixing bugs isn't fun; going through the bug list isn't fun; but rewriting everything from scratch is fun (because "this time it will be done right", ha ha) and so that's what happens, over and over again.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
The 3rd quoted point.... if applying it the Linux audio stack then ... this is so absolutely fucking disrespectful to people like Takashi Iwai, who has spent 20 years fixing bugs and doing so much "un-fun" work on ALSA. Y'all can vent on Lennart as much as you want, but every time you do you forget the heroes who have worked out of the spotlight, doing the boring grunt work that has kept ALSA working for two decades as audio hardware has changed dramatically.
- oblio 5y ago
  How would my quote apply to people who do that kind of work? The whole article is about people that <<don't>> do that.
  - md8z 5y ago
    It's pretty rude to insult someone by calling them an "attention deficit teenager" regardless of what they're working on. I would recommend against quoting that article.
    - bmn__ 5y ago
      I see you chose to ignore what prompted the rant. Is it deliberate?
      - md8z 5y ago
        I generally try to avoid responding to rants because every time I do that, the author gets angry and starts complaining at me. In my experience, people who rant are just frustrated and blowing off steam, and are not trying to be taken seriously or start a constructive dialogue. If a person actually has some leadership/direction and a solid grasp on the full picture then there is no need to rant. But you may want to read my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28856907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28856907
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago