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> Check if your hardware supports your OS before you buy it. Guess what? Then it all works great. What a waste of time. Who runs into hardware compatibility is

by bogwog 5y ago

> Check if your hardware supports your OS before you buy it. Guess what? Then it all works great. What a waste of time. Who runs into hardware compatibility issues with Linux? People installing it themselves. Who installs Linux themselves? Tech geeks/enthusiasts. Who should know better than to install an operating system before checking for hardware support? Tech geeks/enthusiasts. That's why I can't take those people seriously. If hardware support was a real problem, Apple would have gone out of business long ago. People like that aren't trying to have an honest discussion, they're just trying to bash something they don't like or understand. There are many issues that need to be overcome in the Linux community before the Linux desktop can go mainstream, but we're not going to find answers to those problems by listening to these people.

rattlesnakedave 5y ago
>Who installs Linux themselves? Tech geeks/enthusiasts. Perhaps this wouldn't be the case if we fixed some of the issues in the article :) There are plenty of people "on the fence" but problems mentioned in the article (among others) keep them away.
- bogwog 5y ago
  What type of person knows how to install an operating system that isn't a tech geek/enthusiast? Not even Linux, who can install Windows or MacOS on an empty hard drive, but doesn't consider themselves to be a "computer person"? If the Linux desktop can't take off until my grandma is able to install it herself, then well, yeah it's truly fucked.
rvz 5y ago
Exactly this. These are the exact reasons why users having to 'install Linux distros' these days will always be limited to tech geeks and enthusiasts and not widely adopted as a mainstream desktop. It also explains why Windows 11 (with WSL) is probably the best Linux distro for the desktop as it is already been 'painfully' admitted. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28960864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28960864
- bogwog 5y ago
  > Exactly this. These are the exact reasons why users having to 'install Linux distros' these days will always be limited to tech geeks and enthusiasts and not widely adopted as a mainstream desktop. I don't think you've thought this through. How many Windows users out there have installed it themselves? How many could install it themselves? How many could complete an installation if somebody else booted up the installer for them on a machine with a single empty hard drive? The popularity of Windows and MacOS have nothing to do with how easy they are to install, or with "hardware support".
  - rvz 5y ago
    > I don't think you've thought this through. are you sure? > How many... Windows is pre-installed on the majority of OEM desktops and laptops so there is no 'install' or 'install it themselves' step. Same for Apple computers with macOS and that is 100% a given for users. ChromeOS succeeded due to this. But given that is going to be replaced by Fuchsia, we are just going to see Google putting Fuchsia on the desktop (and phones) instead. The reasons why Google decided to migrate is another story but the hint is related to "hardware support" similar to how Apple supports their devices.
spicybright 5y ago
If I want something to work on my mac, I look for a mac logo on packaging. I can assume the company has done proper QA and testing to make sure that's the case. If I want something to work on a typical linux installation, I have to dig through hardware wikis, pages of forum posts, and be ready to dive into config files in case the info above is wrong. And even then there can be less of a guarantee The year of the linux desktop will happen once Ubuntu or whatever distro is most popular has a logo that appears next to the windows and/or mac compatibility stickers. And to add, if anything, we SHOULD be listening to geek enthusiasts if we want linux to go mainstream. Those are the people actually using it day to day, and the ones that will be installing it on other people's computers. Do you really think we'll get to mainstream adoption by just ignoring issues techies face that a typical user would also face?
- bogwog 5y ago
  > The year of the linux desktop will happen once Ubuntu or whatever distro is most popular has a logo that appears next to the windows and/or mac compatibility stickers. That's wrong and ignorant. I installed Kubuntu on my main desktop ~7 years ago, and have had zero compatibility or stability issues, even through 2 LTS upgrades. If everyone who wanted to try Linux used my exact hardware, the Linux desktop would not suddenly take off. > And to add, if anything, we SHOULD be listening to geek enthusiasts if we want linux to go mainstream. Those are the people actually using it day to day, and the ones that will be installing it on other people's computers. > Do you really think we'll get to mainstream adoption by just ignoring issues techies face that a typical user would also face? Did you reply to the wrong person? I didn't say anything even remotely close to this.
  - spicybright 5y ago
    > Who installs Linux themselves? Tech geeks/enthusiasts. > Who should know better than to install an operating system before checking for hardware support? Tech geeks/enthusiasts. > That's why I can't take those people seriously. ... we're not going to find answers to those problems by listening to these people. Am I missing something here? My point is issues techies face are the same as a non techie would. So why wouldn't you listen to that kind of feedback from techies? It's not like they're complaining about kernel internals or architecture, they're complaining about user experience compared to other mainstream operating systems. If a linux desktop distro can't or isn't willing to address that, then it's simply not designed for a typical user as much as people want it to be.

by bogwog 5y ago

rattlesnakedave 5y ago

>Who installs Linux themselves? Tech geeks/enthusiasts. Perhaps this wouldn't be the case if we fixed some of the issues in the article :) There are plenty of people "on the fence" but problems mentioned in the article (among others) keep them away.

bogwog 5y ago
What type of person knows how to install an operating system that isn't a tech geek/enthusiast? Not even Linux, who can install Windows or MacOS on an empty hard drive, but doesn't consider themselves to be a "computer person"? If the Linux desktop can't take off until my grandma is able to install it herself, then well, yeah it's truly fucked.

rvz 5y ago

Exactly this. These are the exact reasons why users having to 'install Linux distros' these days will always be limited to tech geeks and enthusiasts and not widely adopted as a mainstream desktop. It also explains why Windows 11 (with WSL) is probably the best Linux distro for the desktop as it is already been 'painfully' admitted. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28960864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28960864

bogwog 5y ago
> Exactly this. These are the exact reasons why users having to 'install Linux distros' these days will always be limited to tech geeks and enthusiasts and not widely adopted as a mainstream desktop. I don't think you've thought this through. How many Windows users out there have installed it themselves? How many could install it themselves? How many could complete an installation if somebody else booted up the installer for them on a machine with a single empty hard drive? The popularity of Windows and MacOS have nothing to do with how easy they are to install, or with "hardware support".
- rvz 5y ago
  > I don't think you've thought this through. are you sure? > How many... Windows is pre-installed on the majority of OEM desktops and laptops so there is no 'install' or 'install it themselves' step. Same for Apple computers with macOS and that is 100% a given for users. ChromeOS succeeded due to this. But given that is going to be replaced by Fuchsia, we are just going to see Google putting Fuchsia on the desktop (and phones) instead. The reasons why Google decided to migrate is another story but the hint is related to "hardware support" similar to how Apple supports their devices.

spicybright 5y ago

If I want something to work on my mac, I look for a mac logo on packaging. I can assume the company has done proper QA and testing to make sure that's the case. If I want something to work on a typical linux installation, I have to dig through hardware wikis, pages of forum posts, and be ready to dive into config files in case the info above is wrong. And even then there can be less of a guarantee The year of the linux desktop will happen once Ubuntu or whatever distro is most popular has a logo that appears next to the windows and/or mac compatibility stickers. And to add, if anything, we SHOULD be listening to geek enthusiasts if we want linux to go mainstream. Those are the people actually using it day to day, and the ones that will be installing it on other people's computers. Do you really think we'll get to mainstream adoption by just ignoring issues techies face that a typical user would also face?

bogwog 5y ago
> The year of the linux desktop will happen once Ubuntu or whatever distro is most popular has a logo that appears next to the windows and/or mac compatibility stickers. That's wrong and ignorant. I installed Kubuntu on my main desktop ~7 years ago, and have had zero compatibility or stability issues, even through 2 LTS upgrades. If everyone who wanted to try Linux used my exact hardware, the Linux desktop would not suddenly take off. > And to add, if anything, we SHOULD be listening to geek enthusiasts if we want linux to go mainstream. Those are the people actually using it day to day, and the ones that will be installing it on other people's computers. > Do you really think we'll get to mainstream adoption by just ignoring issues techies face that a typical user would also face? Did you reply to the wrong person? I didn't say anything even remotely close to this.
- spicybright 5y ago
  > Who installs Linux themselves? Tech geeks/enthusiasts. > Who should know better than to install an operating system before checking for hardware support? Tech geeks/enthusiasts. > That's why I can't take those people seriously. ... we're not going to find answers to those problems by listening to these people. Am I missing something here? My point is issues techies face are the same as a non techie would. So why wouldn't you listen to that kind of feedback from techies? It's not like they're complaining about kernel internals or architecture, they're complaining about user experience compared to other mainstream operating systems. If a linux desktop distro can't or isn't willing to address that, then it's simply not designed for a typical user as much as people want it to be.