5 ms·

> Weird list of non-problems and not understanding how Linux works I would like to add this attitude to the list.

by psyc 5y ago

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Yeah seriously. Been dealing with this attitude from the Linux Desktop community for literal decades now.
- spicybright 5y ago
  It will never be the year of the linux desktop if they can't put their feet in the shoes of a non-linux hacker.
  - sho_hn 5y ago
    > It will never be the year of the linux desktop if they can't put their feet in the shoes of a non-linux hacker. My honest impression is that the developers of the software are often quite in tune with the needs and pains of the users, and the sort of "your problem is not a problem" responses lacking empathy you see are largely from other users. This isn't universally true, but I would say broadly. And even in cases where it isn't that one uncaring dev is often not representative of the project as a whole. What I mean is - I think it's valid to call this a frequent failing of the broader Linux community, with users included. It bothers me as well. But the ones who do the most to make the software are often the ones who do care the most. And for them it's also quite a bad experience when generalizations go the other way.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      > My honest impression is that the developers of the software are often quite in tune with the needs and pains of the users, and the sort of "your problem is not a problem" responses lacking empathy you see are largely from other users. Perhaps you have never perused the GNOME issue tracker then.
- giantrobot 5y ago
  It's like "Works on my system" manifested as a person.
spicybright 5y ago
Each point he made is really weak too. It puts all the burden on the user compared to other main stream operating systems > There's no concept of drivers in Linux ... I'm not well versed in drivers, but this explanation makes it sound like hardware needs to target a specific linux driver to work as intended. So instead of someone building their own driver against some api and including it with the product, they have to either design their hardware around linux (and maintain compatibility with windows/mac), or make a pull request for support and go through the normal development channels? Is that really how that works? No wonder graphics + wifi cards have had so much trouble through the years... > Your hardware generally either works or doesn't work. ... Linux-compatible hardware to purchase ... I've never bought a device that didn't work with windows. Ever. I understand what causes that, but for better for for worse, windows wins for usability here. And I'm not entirely convinced no one can come up with a system to smooth this out better. > ... The distros keep your software working with newer versions of Gtk or Qt, and deal with licensing. It's not something that end users need to worry about. Until something breaks and I do have to worry about it. Then it's explicitly my problem to solve, with only google on my side to help. > Also the obsession with "screen tearing" ... It doesn't bother me either, but "it doesn't bother me so it's a non-problem" is so unsympathetic to the typical user. Is no one besides techie programmers supposed to being using linux? That's what it seems like most of the time.
- TLLtchvL8KZ 5y ago
  >It puts all the burden on the user compared to other main stream operating systems When I asked for help for my sound (in linux its only 50% volume and sounds like its a cheap speaker inside of a tin can) I was blamed for: - Using a laptop - The brand of laptop - The audio hardware of my laptop (its their fault, not the kernels "generic" driver) Then was told to either carry around an external DAC + Speakers or buy a desktop with a "proper" audio card. It was the first time in 6 years I'd installed Linux and it lasted less than a week. This happens all the time.
  - spicybright 5y ago
    And even if a user has had the opposite experience: "Oh, I had an issue and the community was so helpful, I got my issue resolved in a few days from going back and forth with nice people." Some may disagree but I shouldn't have to enter communities of people to just get my computer to run. I want to put the flash drive in, wait an hour, and get onto what I actually wanted to do with a computer. And it's sad, because I believe I share the same vision of people developing this software. I want a world where every computer can have an OS that's free, completely open source, user friendly for every day computing, and empowers you to truly OWN the hunk of plastic in your hands. It really seems linux is for no one but kernel hackers, software engineers, or to run on server hardware.

> Weird list of non-problems and not understanding how Linux works I would like to add this attitude to the list.

by psyc 5y ago

> Weird list of non-problems and not understanding how Linux works I would like to add this attitude to the list.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

Yeah seriously. Been dealing with this attitude from the Linux Desktop community for literal decades now.

spicybright 5y ago
It will never be the year of the linux desktop if they can't put their feet in the shoes of a non-linux hacker.
- sho_hn 5y ago
  > It will never be the year of the linux desktop if they can't put their feet in the shoes of a non-linux hacker. My honest impression is that the developers of the software are often quite in tune with the needs and pains of the users, and the sort of "your problem is not a problem" responses lacking empathy you see are largely from other users. This isn't universally true, but I would say broadly. And even in cases where it isn't that one uncaring dev is often not representative of the project as a whole. What I mean is - I think it's valid to call this a frequent failing of the broader Linux community, with users included. It bothers me as well. But the ones who do the most to make the software are often the ones who do care the most. And for them it's also quite a bad experience when generalizations go the other way.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    > My honest impression is that the developers of the software are often quite in tune with the needs and pains of the users, and the sort of "your problem is not a problem" responses lacking empathy you see are largely from other users. Perhaps you have never perused the GNOME issue tracker then.
giantrobot 5y ago
It's like "Works on my system" manifested as a person.

spicybright 5y ago

Each point he made is really weak too. It puts all the burden on the user compared to other main stream operating systems > There's no concept of drivers in Linux ... I'm not well versed in drivers, but this explanation makes it sound like hardware needs to target a specific linux driver to work as intended. So instead of someone building their own driver against some api and including it with the product, they have to either design their hardware around linux (and maintain compatibility with windows/mac), or make a pull request for support and go through the normal development channels? Is that really how that works? No wonder graphics + wifi cards have had so much trouble through the years... > Your hardware generally either works or doesn't work. ... Linux-compatible hardware to purchase ... I've never bought a device that didn't work with windows. Ever. I understand what causes that, but for better for for worse, windows wins for usability here. And I'm not entirely convinced no one can come up with a system to smooth this out better. > ... The distros keep your software working with newer versions of Gtk or Qt, and deal with licensing. It's not something that end users need to worry about. Until something breaks and I do have to worry about it. Then it's explicitly my problem to solve, with only google on my side to help. > Also the obsession with "screen tearing" ... It doesn't bother me either, but "it doesn't bother me so it's a non-problem" is so unsympathetic to the typical user. Is no one besides techie programmers supposed to being using linux? That's what it seems like most of the time.

TLLtchvL8KZ 5y ago
>It puts all the burden on the user compared to other main stream operating systems When I asked for help for my sound (in linux its only 50% volume and sounds like its a cheap speaker inside of a tin can) I was blamed for: - Using a laptop - The brand of laptop - The audio hardware of my laptop (its their fault, not the kernels "generic" driver) Then was told to either carry around an external DAC + Speakers or buy a desktop with a "proper" audio card. It was the first time in 6 years I'd installed Linux and it lasted less than a week. This happens all the time.
- spicybright 5y ago
  And even if a user has had the opposite experience: "Oh, I had an issue and the community was so helpful, I got my issue resolved in a few days from going back and forth with nice people." Some may disagree but I shouldn't have to enter communities of people to just get my computer to run. I want to put the flash drive in, wait an hour, and get onto what I actually wanted to do with a computer. And it's sad, because I believe I share the same vision of people developing this software. I want a world where every computer can have an OS that's free, completely open source, user friendly for every day computing, and empowers you to truly OWN the hunk of plastic in your hands. It really seems linux is for no one but kernel hackers, software engineers, or to run on server hardware.