8 ms·
YouTube is about to pull its apps from Roku
- drewg123 5y agoRoku should do an official port of NewPipe(1) or SmartTubeNext (1) to its platform and install them by default. (1) These are alternative YouTube clients that block youtube ads, and STN even has sponsorblock.
- judge2020 5y agoBoth of these generally break the TOS of YouTube[0], which means Roku distributing such software could be considered breaking the CFAA and/or helping their customers do so. Besides that, Roku isn't some small OSS project - their previous deal with YouTube likely means Google could revel in having real damages to bring against Roku for lost ad revenue during the entire time the YouTube app was removed and replaced with a version that doesn't show ads or shows less relevant ads. 0: https://www.youtube.com/static?template=terms#:~:text=circumvent%2C%20disable%2C%20fraudulently%20engage%20with%2C%20or%20otherwise%20interfere%20with%20any%20part%20of%20the%20service%20(or%20attempt%20to%20do%20any%20of%20these%20things)%2C%20including%20security-related%20features%20or%20features%20that%20(a)%20prevent%20or%20restrict%20the%20copying%20or%20other%20use%20of%20content%20or%20(b)%20limit%20the%20use%20of%20the%20service%20or%20content%3B https://www.youtube.com/static?template=terms#:~:text=circum... "Permissions and Restrictions" (2)
- Pet_Ant 5y agoThere needs to be ways ensuring that content remains a commodity and does not enable rent-seeking. Imagine where we would be today if each television station had it's own antenna and encoding just to seek more profit.
- Spivak 5y agoWait what? Content has never been a commodity and copyright is by definition rent-seeking just without the negative connotations. You might mean content distribution but that's really never been a commodity either. Even though it sorta kinda feels like you can buy "cable" from lots of companies that's only because each company independently negotiated contracts for all their channels. Physical distribution -- B&N/Blockbuster/Record Stores (and OG DVD Netflix) is the closest thing you could call commodity content distribution. But we kinda ruined open internet distribution early early on with DRM and locked-down clients which put platform owners in a similar spot to cable companies and so here we are.
- colinmhayes 5y agoFacebook and Google have made content a commodity. That's the entire point of aggregators.
- xg15 5y ago> copyright is by definition rent-seeking just without the negative connotations > But we kinda ruined open internet distribution early early on with DRM and locked-down clients DRM is nothing more than an enforcement mechanism for existing copyright though. So that's a bit like saying "copyright is a great thing as long as it only exists on paper".
- humanistbot 5y agoFrom the article: > The fight between the two companies centers on a 2019 agreement to allow YouTube TV on Roku. Roku said Google demanded special access to search data from Roku customers as a condition of allowing YouTube TV on Roku devices. Roku also said Google asked for prioritized search results for YouTube videos in Roku's search feature. > Roku said it agreed to those terms, but also asked that Google not ask for any additional data. Google would not commit to that, according to Roku, and now both sides are at an impasse. Unless both companies come to an agreement before Dec. 9, YouTube's apps will disappear from Roku's app store.
- joemi 5y agoIf that's all it is, it's pretty damning of Google. It'd be nice if they thought of the users they'd be affecting, but I guess in a way they are, in that they're upset they can't mine those users.
- judge2020 5y agoBoth sides of the agreement are likely being deceptive in their statements. Google says they never asked for preferential treatment of search, nor access to user data[0], yet Roku says they did. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28945280 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28945280 also see[]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28945250 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28945250
- black_puppydog 5y agoWhat you describe really only guarantees that at least one of the two is being deceptive.
- TwiceCubed 5y ago"Both sides" meaning "both sides of Google's lying mouth".
- rnd0 5y ago
- mig39 5y agoSee also: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28943886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28943886
- jmondi 5y agoMy solution? Jellyfin and yt-dlp with an easy to use web ui -- https://github.com/alexta69/metube https://github.com/alexta69/metube
- Fervicus 5y agoSwitched from Plex to Jellyfin a couple of years ago and very happy with it!
- ryanmcbride 5y agoI'm a really big plex fan but I've never heard of Jellyfin. What triggered your switch?
- hbcondo714 5y agoI heard of Jellyfin here on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21986282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21986282 (2 years ago) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28664802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28664802 (1 month ago)
- Ardon 5y agoI'm not that guy but I made the same switch. It's mostly that I despised the way that, fundamentally, plex was in control of what user saw when they first logged in. They kept adding bs and less technical users kept feeling like the rug was pulled out from under them when a bunch of stuff would change. Jellyfin doesn't give me the control I'd like to have, but it does give me what I consider essential. This may improve when the team transitions to a from-scratch web client[1] rather than the forked-from-emby client. [1] https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin-vue https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin-vue
- handrous 5y agoNot a Plex user but I switched from Kodi because I've always hated Kodi's UI, and just suffered it for lack of anything better (no, alternative skins don't help, both because most of them are half-broken, and because most of what I dislike seems to be baked into the essential structure of their UI). Gone back and forth between it and just running a simple desktop with VLC connected to a TV, for many years. Happy Jellyfin user for... oh, two or three years now. I use it with the Roku app, and sometimes in a browser. It's got some rough edges, but nothing like Kodi. One thing I really like is that I can just run it directly on my file server. An absolute breeze to get it running in Docker. I'm a very lazy sysadmin when I'm on my own time, so I've even been relying on Docker to handle restarts and such—didn't touch Systemd at all. This isn't exactly best practice but I get it "for free" and it's yet to fail. If it does, well, it's not like it's a big deal. Kodi samba shares to play remote media have always sucked to set up, but this instead provides an API for clients to browse and then stream one video remotely—the clients don't need any form of actual access to the files (I think there are ways to set Kodi up like that, too, so you've got it two places and one's just playing media from the other, but the last thing I wanted was even more complexity in my Kodi set-up and config process) Being able to hop on a browser anywhere and edit config and media metadata is so very much nicer than trying to do it on a TV. The in-browser UI's also pretty damn good for watching stuff. I haven't tried it, but I understand there's a plugin for Kodi that lets you play your Jellyfin library through it. If I ever set up Kodi again, for some reason, that's exactly what I'll do. No "native" file access in Kodi, just a thin frontend for Jellyfin. Somewhere on my long list of shit I'll never actually get around to doing is writing a Jellyfin browser & player "core" for Retroarch. Now that would be perfect. [EDIT] Oh, I like its account management way better than Kodi's, too. Very easy to configure (through the browser, like nearly everything else). My kids have access to one set of content, my wife and I each have an account with access to everything, so our "watched" statuses don't interfere for stuff we watch on our own time. It's great.
- tyingq 5y agoSo Google will have to tell their users to side-load the app on the Roku. Just like anyone booted from the Android App store. (yes, the Roku does have sideloading, though you can sideload only one app at a time.).
- arenaninja 5y agoI've been waiting for a device to smarten up my TVs so the kids can stream on it but without YouTube. If google goes through with this I will buy some Rokus :)
- SllX 5y agoJust out of curiosity, and feel free to ignore this question if you’d rather not say, but why something specifically without YouTube, but presumably other streaming apps?
- sgtfrankieboy 5y agoNot OP. My guess is because YouTube offers user uploaded content, unlike all the other streaming services like Netflix, Disney+
- massysett 5y agoThe crap that's on YouTube makes the cable TV networks targeted at kids look like educational television. Horrid stuff with kids shooting off their mouths.
- hbn 5y agoIt's pretty reasonable, and smart I'd say. The kids content on YouTube has been heavily gamed by content farms optimizing content for SEO, making absolutely bizarre and sometimes disgusting content. Bit of a lengthy watch, but this video is pretty eye-opening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKp2gikIkD8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKp2gikIkD8 (It's a few years old at this point, but not a lot has changed, and possibly has gotten worse)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- strombofulous 5y agoSearch for a period (just ".") and pick any of the things youtube recommends (don't press enter on your "." query). These are the kinds of videos it tends to suggest to kids. Someone else posted a detailed explanation on why but tldr is that kids are curious about things that they don't understand and adults exploited this curiosity. Edit: And also this trick is known by a lot of kids according to a friend I have that works at a public school
- throwawaysea 5y agoRoku could do the world a favor by featuring newer alternate video sharing platforms, particularly decentralized ones. It could also make it clear why they’re offering them and rally users to their support.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- pixelbath 5y agoThe article says this is "the latest battle between a Big Tech giant and a smaller technology firm." Roku is a technology spin-off of Netflix that went public on its own and last year reported revenue of nearly a billion dollars. Sure, Roku is "smaller" than Google, but I disagree with the characterization of Roku as some poor upstart that's getting ground underfoot by Big Tech.
- chmod775 5y agoGoogle at this point is just coasting along on its old reputation, while consistently behaving in a way one might expect from the Microsoft of old. Doing a thing, getting called out, and then lying - only to get bitten by a leaked paper trail is such a Microsoft thing to do.
- yumraj 5y agoFew years ago when YouTube app was removed from Fire TV, it had turned out to be a major blessing in disguise. It basically cured my kid’s addiction to YT’s junk/addictive content for young kids. I’m sure this so benefit at least some people in a similar fashion.
- vlunkr 5y agoI'm certainly looking forward to it. There's good content for kids on youtube, but it's drowning in a sea of low quality or downright creepy imitations, and I don't think the algorithm can tell the difference. And the ads aren't much better.
- Koshkin 5y agoOTOH because YT is an invaluable resource for learning, it’s also a big loss for the kid.
- sergiotapia 5y agoRoku should add Odysee to their platform, and dethrone youtube already. Time for decentralized solutions.
- nimfan 5y agohttps://channelstore.roku.com/details/9c8df00ea3b378467cfced954e1aa40e/odysee-unofficial# https://channelstore.roku.com/details/9c8df00ea3b378467cfced...! Disclaimer: Haven't tried this yet.
- Koshkin 5y agoToo bad - after the YouTube app had silently disappeared from my Apple TV, I had to dig up my ancient Roku so I could continue to enjoy it. A mini-PC to the rescue, I guess…
- LocalH 5y agoLiterally Cable 2.0. Fuck these assholes, both of them. Neither of them has clean hands
- greatgib 5y agoHere people can see how Google is a sucker for your data...