9 ms·

U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

51 points by noahc 15y ago

pavel_lishin 15y ago
Why would you write this article, but not include the text of the posts?
- andyking 15y ago
  Jordan Blackshaw's event was entitled "Smash Down in Northwich Town" and included an invitation for something called the "Mob Hill Massive Northwich Lootin'" to meet behind the McDonald's in the town centre at 1pm. It also included the words "We'll need to get this kickin' off all over." The Warrington posts by Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan were very similar, although he did actually title his event "The Warrington Riots." It was a similar invitation to meet at a location in the centre of the town at 7pm. The rest of the information on the groups has not been released by police and has been removed from Facebook. (Source: I work in the media in the area concerned and have the police news release in front of me.)
- monochromatic 15y ago
  Trying not to get arrested here.
sfk 15y ago
Much better article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/16/facebook-riot-calls-men-jailed http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/16/facebook-riot-calls... "Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, of Latchford, Warrington, used his Facebook account in the early hours of 9 August to design a web page entitled The Warrington Riots. The court was told it caused a wave of panic in the town. When he woke up the following morning with a hangover, he removed the page and apologised, saying it had been a joke. His message was distributed to 400 Facebook contacts, but no rioting broke out as a result."
- nitrogen 15y ago
  There are a number of technological misrepresentations in your quotation that would seem inconsequential to the average judge or journalist, but actually make a huge difference in meaning and effect: ...used his Facebook account...to design a web page... The word "design" implies stronger intent and effort than is actually required to post an event to Facebook. "Web page" is not typically used to refer to user-generated content on Facebook, but rather a distinct presence on the Internet that exists independently of and can be accessed without assistance from Facebook. Saying "web page" rather than "Facebook post" implies a much wider intended exposure than is actually likely. His message was distributed to 400 Facebook contacts... This number dropping seems like a journalistic scare tactic. Probably half or more of the users on Facebook have hundreds of Facebook "friends." Saying the message "was distributed to 400...contacts" implies deliberate, intended dissemination of the post. It is far more likely that the post simply ended up in his news feed automatically, and that many of his 400 friends didn't even see the post. It is also possible that he invited all of his Facebook friends to the event, in which case all 400 would receive the invitation, but that is far, far different from, say, distributing a crime-inciting newsletter to 400 willing subscribers, or sending instructions to an active criminal network of 400 members.
  - jellicle 15y ago
    So the guy posted a Facebook event, inviting people to the riots. Humorous, funny, probably took all of three minutes to accomplish, no harm done, four years in prison. Meanwhile the banksters who have stolen billions from the public treasury have not even been charged, and won't be.
cellis 15y ago
Make a post on Facebook, get sentenced to the Men of the Night's Watch. Steal two scoops of ice cream, get your hand cut off!
- bigwally 15y ago
  Steal a loaf of bread and get sent to Australia...
- shabble 15y ago
  ObRacistJoke: Australian Immigration Officer: Do you have any prior criminal convictions? Tourist: I didn't realise that it was still a requirement.
Shenglong 15y ago
Social media is no different from any other form of communication for trying to incite crime. Drunkenness is not an excuse for other crimes, and should not be for this one.
- biafra 15y ago
  Here in Germany drunkenness can reduce your sentence and your criminal responsibility.
  - Shenglong 15y ago
    Spoke too soon. Culture gap I guess Edit: took out attempt at humor
alain 15y ago
4 years... There are murderers who do less.
Stevenup7002 15y ago
What about the actual posts?
Daniel_Newby 15y ago
"Jordan Blackshaw, left, and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, both pleaded guilty to using Facebook in attempts to fuel riots in Cheshire. They have been jailed for four years" One wonders what sort of lawyer they had that recommended a guilty plea, or in the absence of a lawyer what was done to encourage that plea. "Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, of Latchford, Warrington, used his Facebook account in the early hours of 9 August ..." Dateline of story: Tuesday 16 August 2011 One also wonders how their lawyer allowed the situation to progress from alleged offense to media circus regarding four year sentence IN LESS THAN A WEEK. I don't know how Britain usually does things, but in the U.S. a non-violent victimless offender would generally spend most of the first week out on bail awaiting the gathering of evidence for a proper arraignment. Methinks someone has been railroaded.
- andyking 15y ago
  This was a crown court case, which is even more concerning. Crown court is used for serious offences which require a punishment of more than six months in prison, so for a case such as this to get from arrest to multi-year crown court sentence in a week is hugely concerning. A case has to first be heard in magistrates' court and handed to crown court, so it will have been in the hands of Chester Crown Court for just a day or two. But for more minor offences attracting sentences under six months, magistrates' courts have been sitting through the night to "process" literally thousands of small-time, mainly first offender criminals. Courts have been under great political pressure to serve swift and tough "justice" such that minor offences have attracted fairly lengthy prison sentences. Take the case of the mother of two young children who slept through the Manchester riots, but whose flatmate gave her a pair of stolen shorts from a store the morning after. She got five months in prison, for an offence which (if it even got as far as court) would normally attract a period of unpaid community work and/or a fine. [http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1455638_mum-jailed-for-six-months-for-wearing-pair-of-looted-shorts- http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1455638_m...] I personally can't see how any of these people can get a fair trial when the court is sitting at 3am, it's less than a week since their arrest, and politicians are pressing hard on unpaid magistrates for disproportionate sentences in a vague attempt to give the impression that a government that's fairly weak and lacking in public support is being "tough on crime." I feel for those who are caught up in this system right now. I am no apologist for criminals, but at the moment, people leading fairly fragile and frugal existences are having even that taken away for political point-scoring.
Mvandenbergh 15y ago
If they'd just generally called for a riot that would be one thing (possibly still illegal), these guys set a particular time and place which is what did them in. Blackshaw at least (because he actually showed up for his planned riot, the other chap didn't) would go to prison if he did this anywhere in the world. Even in the USA with its extremely strong protections for speech, inviting people to meet at a set place and time for the purpose of rioting is illegal. Even Sutcliffe-Keenan (who at least was smart enough to delete his event from facebook after he sobered up) basically did the equivalent of calling a bomb-threat.
- bugsy 15y ago
  Hey we're "having a riot" out by the McDonalds on Orangethorpe Avenue in Anaheim tomorrow at 4pm. Hope you can make it, assuming free speech still exists in the US, unlike the british police state we fought to free ourselves from. PS come and get me coppers. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=laugh%20riot http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=laugh%20riot
  - Mvandenbergh 15y ago
    Free speech does not include planning a riot, any more than it does threatening to kill someone. This is one of the few exceptions to otherwise very strong rights to say whatever you want.
    - bugsy 15y ago
      If you decide to come to the riot, could you bring the desert plates? Just a sack of 500 paper ones would be fine. Famous case from World War I. There was a socialist party guy, Charles Schenck, who thought war was a bunch of BS and the draft was slavery. He printed up 15,000 tracts and passed them out to people. Oliver Wendall Holmes, a fascist if there ever was one, said that criticizing the government was the same thing as "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" and you had no right to to such a thing that might bring about a riot. So they sent Schenck to prison. That was the wrong decision. As you are wrong here. The problem with this nonsense is it is provoking people to go from posting gag calls for rioting to realizing the situation is so bad rioting isn't enough. Armed revolution is what is needed. The violent overthrow of the government is inevitable at this point.
rmc 15y ago
If you want to see how a police state starts, look at what's happening in the UK now.
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  More accurately, look at what's been happening over the last several decades. The population has been disarmed bit by bit, first various gun rights were taken away until ultimately all gun rights were taken away in a hysterical response to the Dunblane massacre. Then every weapon was targeted, knives, batons, everything. Even self-defense rights were taken away, if you use your own fists in your own home to defend yourself against an attacker you could potentially go to jail. Meanwhile, British police powers have been growing out of control, with little to keep them in check. While the world made much note of the PATRIOT act in the US few people, even in the UK, paid much attention to the far more sweeping expansion of British police powers undertaken as "anti-terrorism" measures. All the while moving closer and closer to the ideal of a completely disempowered populace utterly dependent on the police for any degree of protection.
  - AndyJPartridge 15y ago
    FYI: We have been given the right to self defence in our own homes now. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13957587 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13957587
    - InclinedPlane 15y ago
      Given the way British law works I'd wait until a few high-profile cases have established a firm precedent to get too excited. Nevertheless, compared to the situation previous this is somewhat of an improvement.
      - AndyJPartridge 15y ago
        Indeed. The last high profile case didn't work out very well for the defender did it, but I guess that was largely due to the robber being shot in the back. [1] I think the change is law is to help clarify this a little more. In reality, once the perps in this case dived out the window, they could have pulled weapons and started shooting themselves. I'd sooner face jail than that possibility. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)
nkh 15y ago
Can someone from the UK comment on if 4-year sentences are typically served to full term. I believe in America, you can be sentenced to 4 years and only end up doing a few months of the actual sentence.
- AndyJPartridge 15y ago
  You typically serve half of it over here, pending a hearing, "good behaviour" and any extra conditions a judge added. (Which for these sort of offences are very unlikely to be applied.)
- ErrantX 15y ago
  2 years. But I expect they'll be out befor that, or more likely overturned on appeal - once the heat/fear has calmed down then there will be less pressure for panic over reaction.
- jellicle 15y ago
  Most people in the U.S. serve about 50-70% of their sentence behind bars. Stop watching Fox News. Parole conditions, if granted, are often onerous.
AndyJPartridge 15y ago
I'm a UK guy. I won't argue that these sentences are disproportionate. But is it what we need in response to this? I'd argue yes. The spark for these "riots" was a gentleman who was killed during an arrest. Bad times, of course. Very bad times. But it's important to understand that the details of /exactly/ what happened here are currently officially unknown. The official report has not been released. On the back of this, groups of people all over the UK decided to go on organised shoplifting spree's. When asked by the media "Why" they said things like "To get back our taxes, innit." [SIC] Perhaps a few, who are at the very least comfortable with criminal behaviour, need to be given these sorts of sentences - and then for the media to make it well known it's happened. A deterrent. Unfortunate for those singled out for it, but perhaps one needed for the good of the whole society. They looted charity shops for fucks sake. Parents supported the kids doing it. Something had to be done. This was it.
- dave1010uk 15y ago
  Prison sentences, fines, comunity service, etc are already a deterrent to crime. These deterrents (and punishments) are considered proportionate to the crime by the judge/jury. I see no reason to single out rioting to be different, apart from emotional ones.
  - AndyJPartridge 15y ago
    But it hasn't acted as a deterrent, has it. The first tiny window of opportunity these organised shoplifters had, they went for it. It wasn't rioting or a protest.
    - nitrogen 15y ago
      So because x pounds of punishment wasn't a deterrent, we are to believe that x times two pounds of punishment will be? Why not, instead, work toward inspiring people to strive to do good, rather than punishing them into fearing to do evil?
    - megablast 15y ago
      You are getting over excited. There are many opportunities to riot, that are not taken. This is no the "first tiny window of opportunity". And once again, the police will cover up any wrong doing, close ranks, just as they did with Jean Charles de Mendez. This is not OK. This is not acceptable, for a police force to kill people, and hide. You can pretend that it has nothing to do with this, but all you will be doing is pretending to yourself to make yourself feel better.
tlb 15y ago
Surprisingly swift justice. The average wait time for the crown court is 13-15 weeks [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Court http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Court].
- mcantelon 15y ago
  The law is certainly agile when representing the interests of the state, rather than citizens.
  - megablast 15y ago
    I think this is all about public perception, they are doing this to convince the public they are now in control, despite the fact that most people involved in the riots are free. I would not be surprised if this is appealed and changed to a more reasonable sentence, in a few months, when people are more calm.
VladRussian 15y ago
speaking about value of anonymity on Facebook in particular and on the Internet in general... People pay dearly for the lack (or disregard?) of basic skills and practices (anonymity, wireless, encryption, route through server in another country, etc...) of how to exercise freedom of speech even in the countries where such freedom is known to not even be guaranteed by law, like Britain or Libya.
ledlight 15y ago
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51 points by noahc 15y ago

pavel_lishin 15y ago

Why would you write this article, but not include the text of the posts?

andyking 15y ago
Jordan Blackshaw's event was entitled "Smash Down in Northwich Town" and included an invitation for something called the "Mob Hill Massive Northwich Lootin'" to meet behind the McDonald's in the town centre at 1pm. It also included the words "We'll need to get this kickin' off all over." The Warrington posts by Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan were very similar, although he did actually title his event "The Warrington Riots." It was a similar invitation to meet at a location in the centre of the town at 7pm. The rest of the information on the groups has not been released by police and has been removed from Facebook. (Source: I work in the media in the area concerned and have the police news release in front of me.)
monochromatic 15y ago
Trying not to get arrested here.

sfk 15y ago

Much better article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/16/facebook-riot-calls-men-jailed http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/16/facebook-riot-calls... "Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, of Latchford, Warrington, used his Facebook account in the early hours of 9 August to design a web page entitled The Warrington Riots. The court was told it caused a wave of panic in the town. When he woke up the following morning with a hangover, he removed the page and apologised, saying it had been a joke. His message was distributed to 400 Facebook contacts, but no rioting broke out as a result."

nitrogen 15y ago
There are a number of technological misrepresentations in your quotation that would seem inconsequential to the average judge or journalist, but actually make a huge difference in meaning and effect: ...used his Facebook account...to design a web page... The word "design" implies stronger intent and effort than is actually required to post an event to Facebook. "Web page" is not typically used to refer to user-generated content on Facebook, but rather a distinct presence on the Internet that exists independently of and can be accessed without assistance from Facebook. Saying "web page" rather than "Facebook post" implies a much wider intended exposure than is actually likely. His message was distributed to 400 Facebook contacts... This number dropping seems like a journalistic scare tactic. Probably half or more of the users on Facebook have hundreds of Facebook "friends." Saying the message "was distributed to 400...contacts" implies deliberate, intended dissemination of the post. It is far more likely that the post simply ended up in his news feed automatically, and that many of his 400 friends didn't even see the post. It is also possible that he invited all of his Facebook friends to the event, in which case all 400 would receive the invitation, but that is far, far different from, say, distributing a crime-inciting newsletter to 400 willing subscribers, or sending instructions to an active criminal network of 400 members.
- jellicle 15y ago
  So the guy posted a Facebook event, inviting people to the riots. Humorous, funny, probably took all of three minutes to accomplish, no harm done, four years in prison. Meanwhile the banksters who have stolen billions from the public treasury have not even been charged, and won't be.

cellis 15y ago

Make a post on Facebook, get sentenced to the Men of the Night's Watch. Steal two scoops of ice cream, get your hand cut off!

bigwally 15y ago
Steal a loaf of bread and get sent to Australia...
shabble 15y ago
ObRacistJoke: Australian Immigration Officer: Do you have any prior criminal convictions? Tourist: I didn't realise that it was still a requirement.

Shenglong 15y ago

Social media is no different from any other form of communication for trying to incite crime. Drunkenness is not an excuse for other crimes, and should not be for this one.

biafra 15y ago
Here in Germany drunkenness can reduce your sentence and your criminal responsibility.
- Shenglong 15y ago
  Spoke too soon. Culture gap I guess Edit: took out attempt at humor

alain 15y ago

4 years... There are murderers who do less.

Stevenup7002 15y ago

What about the actual posts?

Daniel_Newby 15y ago

"Jordan Blackshaw, left, and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, both pleaded guilty to using Facebook in attempts to fuel riots in Cheshire. They have been jailed for four years" One wonders what sort of lawyer they had that recommended a guilty plea, or in the absence of a lawyer what was done to encourage that plea. "Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, of Latchford, Warrington, used his Facebook account in the early hours of 9 August ..." Dateline of story: Tuesday 16 August 2011 One also wonders how their lawyer allowed the situation to progress from alleged offense to media circus regarding four year sentence IN LESS THAN A WEEK. I don't know how Britain usually does things, but in the U.S. a non-violent victimless offender would generally spend most of the first week out on bail awaiting the gathering of evidence for a proper arraignment. Methinks someone has been railroaded.

andyking 15y ago
This was a crown court case, which is even more concerning. Crown court is used for serious offences which require a punishment of more than six months in prison, so for a case such as this to get from arrest to multi-year crown court sentence in a week is hugely concerning. A case has to first be heard in magistrates' court and handed to crown court, so it will have been in the hands of Chester Crown Court for just a day or two. But for more minor offences attracting sentences under six months, magistrates' courts have been sitting through the night to "process" literally thousands of small-time, mainly first offender criminals. Courts have been under great political pressure to serve swift and tough "justice" such that minor offences have attracted fairly lengthy prison sentences. Take the case of the mother of two young children who slept through the Manchester riots, but whose flatmate gave her a pair of stolen shorts from a store the morning after. She got five months in prison, for an offence which (if it even got as far as court) would normally attract a period of unpaid community work and/or a fine. [http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1455638_mum-jailed-for-six-months-for-wearing-pair-of-looted-shorts- http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1455638_m...] I personally can't see how any of these people can get a fair trial when the court is sitting at 3am, it's less than a week since their arrest, and politicians are pressing hard on unpaid magistrates for disproportionate sentences in a vague attempt to give the impression that a government that's fairly weak and lacking in public support is being "tough on crime." I feel for those who are caught up in this system right now. I am no apologist for criminals, but at the moment, people leading fairly fragile and frugal existences are having even that taken away for political point-scoring.

Mvandenbergh 15y ago

If they'd just generally called for a riot that would be one thing (possibly still illegal), these guys set a particular time and place which is what did them in. Blackshaw at least (because he actually showed up for his planned riot, the other chap didn't) would go to prison if he did this anywhere in the world. Even in the USA with its extremely strong protections for speech, inviting people to meet at a set place and time for the purpose of rioting is illegal. Even Sutcliffe-Keenan (who at least was smart enough to delete his event from facebook after he sobered up) basically did the equivalent of calling a bomb-threat.

bugsy 15y ago
Hey we're "having a riot" out by the McDonalds on Orangethorpe Avenue in Anaheim tomorrow at 4pm. Hope you can make it, assuming free speech still exists in the US, unlike the british police state we fought to free ourselves from. PS come and get me coppers. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=laugh%20riot http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=laugh%20riot
- Mvandenbergh 15y ago
  Free speech does not include planning a riot, any more than it does threatening to kill someone. This is one of the few exceptions to otherwise very strong rights to say whatever you want.
  - bugsy 15y ago
    If you decide to come to the riot, could you bring the desert plates? Just a sack of 500 paper ones would be fine. Famous case from World War I. There was a socialist party guy, Charles Schenck, who thought war was a bunch of BS and the draft was slavery. He printed up 15,000 tracts and passed them out to people. Oliver Wendall Holmes, a fascist if there ever was one, said that criticizing the government was the same thing as "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" and you had no right to to such a thing that might bring about a riot. So they sent Schenck to prison. That was the wrong decision. As you are wrong here. The problem with this nonsense is it is provoking people to go from posting gag calls for rioting to realizing the situation is so bad rioting isn't enough. Armed revolution is what is needed. The violent overthrow of the government is inevitable at this point.

rmc 15y ago

If you want to see how a police state starts, look at what's happening in the UK now.

InclinedPlane 15y ago
More accurately, look at what's been happening over the last several decades. The population has been disarmed bit by bit, first various gun rights were taken away until ultimately all gun rights were taken away in a hysterical response to the Dunblane massacre. Then every weapon was targeted, knives, batons, everything. Even self-defense rights were taken away, if you use your own fists in your own home to defend yourself against an attacker you could potentially go to jail. Meanwhile, British police powers have been growing out of control, with little to keep them in check. While the world made much note of the PATRIOT act in the US few people, even in the UK, paid much attention to the far more sweeping expansion of British police powers undertaken as "anti-terrorism" measures. All the while moving closer and closer to the ideal of a completely disempowered populace utterly dependent on the police for any degree of protection.
- AndyJPartridge 15y ago
  FYI: We have been given the right to self defence in our own homes now. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13957587 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13957587
  - InclinedPlane 15y ago
    Given the way British law works I'd wait until a few high-profile cases have established a firm precedent to get too excited. Nevertheless, compared to the situation previous this is somewhat of an improvement.
    - AndyJPartridge 15y ago
      Indeed. The last high profile case didn't work out very well for the defender did it, but I guess that was largely due to the robber being shot in the back. [1] I think the change is law is to help clarify this a little more. In reality, once the perps in this case dived out the window, they could have pulled weapons and started shooting themselves. I'd sooner face jail than that possibility. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

nkh 15y ago

Can someone from the UK comment on if 4-year sentences are typically served to full term. I believe in America, you can be sentenced to 4 years and only end up doing a few months of the actual sentence.

AndyJPartridge 15y ago
You typically serve half of it over here, pending a hearing, "good behaviour" and any extra conditions a judge added. (Which for these sort of offences are very unlikely to be applied.)
ErrantX 15y ago
2 years. But I expect they'll be out befor that, or more likely overturned on appeal - once the heat/fear has calmed down then there will be less pressure for panic over reaction.
jellicle 15y ago
Most people in the U.S. serve about 50-70% of their sentence behind bars. Stop watching Fox News. Parole conditions, if granted, are often onerous.

AndyJPartridge 15y ago

I'm a UK guy. I won't argue that these sentences are disproportionate. But is it what we need in response to this? I'd argue yes. The spark for these "riots" was a gentleman who was killed during an arrest. Bad times, of course. Very bad times. But it's important to understand that the details of /exactly/ what happened here are currently officially unknown. The official report has not been released. On the back of this, groups of people all over the UK decided to go on organised shoplifting spree's. When asked by the media "Why" they said things like "To get back our taxes, innit." [SIC] Perhaps a few, who are at the very least comfortable with criminal behaviour, need to be given these sorts of sentences - and then for the media to make it well known it's happened. A deterrent. Unfortunate for those singled out for it, but perhaps one needed for the good of the whole society. They looted charity shops for fucks sake. Parents supported the kids doing it. Something had to be done. This was it.

dave1010uk 15y ago
Prison sentences, fines, comunity service, etc are already a deterrent to crime. These deterrents (and punishments) are considered proportionate to the crime by the judge/jury. I see no reason to single out rioting to be different, apart from emotional ones.
- AndyJPartridge 15y ago
  But it hasn't acted as a deterrent, has it. The first tiny window of opportunity these organised shoplifters had, they went for it. It wasn't rioting or a protest.
  - nitrogen 15y ago
    So because x pounds of punishment wasn't a deterrent, we are to believe that x times two pounds of punishment will be? Why not, instead, work toward inspiring people to strive to do good, rather than punishing them into fearing to do evil?
  - megablast 15y ago
    You are getting over excited. There are many opportunities to riot, that are not taken. This is no the "first tiny window of opportunity". And once again, the police will cover up any wrong doing, close ranks, just as they did with Jean Charles de Mendez. This is not OK. This is not acceptable, for a police force to kill people, and hide. You can pretend that it has nothing to do with this, but all you will be doing is pretending to yourself to make yourself feel better.

tlb 15y ago

Surprisingly swift justice. The average wait time for the crown court is 13-15 weeks [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Court http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Court].

mcantelon 15y ago
The law is certainly agile when representing the interests of the state, rather than citizens.
- megablast 15y ago
  I think this is all about public perception, they are doing this to convince the public they are now in control, despite the fact that most people involved in the riots are free. I would not be surprised if this is appealed and changed to a more reasonable sentence, in a few months, when people are more calm.

VladRussian 15y ago

speaking about value of anonymity on Facebook in particular and on the Internet in general... People pay dearly for the lack (or disregard?) of basic skills and practices (anonymity, wireless, encryption, route through server in another country, etc...) of how to exercise freedom of speech even in the countries where such freedom is known to not even be guaranteed by law, like Britain or Libya.

ledlight 15y ago

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