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> Unions' interests are not aligned with those of the company. They are not aligned with those of management. They are aligned with those of the company almost

> Unions' interests are not aligned with those of the company. They are not aligned with those of management. They are aligned with those of the company almost by definition if the union is big enough, because a company is its workforce. If the CEO says the company wants to do something and 80% of the employees disagree, then in fact the CEO wants to do something and the company does not. It's obviously not hard to find examples of unions causing negative impacts on society, just like it's not hard to find the same for corporate executives. The idea is to find the right balance. Is the the threat of inefficiency worse than the threat of worker abuse and inequality? At some point yes it will be, but I don't think we're anywhere close to that point yet.

jjk166 5y ago
The company is not its workforce. Every individual in the company would like more money for less work, but that's not in the company's best interest. If the company goes under because it's paying too much for too little, the employees can get new jobs elsewhere, whereas any money reinvested into the company will provide virtually no direct benefit to any individual employee. A company's interests can be aligned with employees, indeed typically you want good employee retention and high morale which can only come from creating a company where people want to work, but companies do not exist to maximize employment and employee compensation.
- titusjohnson 5y ago
  A company is nothing more than the collection of its employees. Without employees, the company does not exist. There may be some legal fiction around registration and taxes and similar, but make no mistake, without people those legal fictions cannot make plans, cannot advocate for itself, cannot change direction, _cannot exist_. A company is its people. Full stop.
  - gapurov 5y ago
    Saying a company is its employees, is like saying a bunch of dots randomly placed on a piece of paper would magically create a line. People playing a crucial part in a company, but without founders, well oiled processes and risks taken, these people would not be able to create what a company creates in terms of products and profit.
    - burkaman 5y ago
      I think this is a fundamental philosophical difference that we're not going to resolve in a comment thread. For me "a company is its workforce" is almost tautological, I don't even know how to explain it further. I don't know how to argue with your objections either, it seems like you're agreeing. Founders are people, processes are designed by people, risks are taken by people. All these people make up the workforce. That's what a company is.
  - jjk166 5y ago
    My car needs wheels. My car isn't just its wheels. My car does not exist for the benefit of its wheels.

jjk166 5y ago

The company is not its workforce. Every individual in the company would like more money for less work, but that's not in the company's best interest. If the company goes under because it's paying too much for too little, the employees can get new jobs elsewhere, whereas any money reinvested into the company will provide virtually no direct benefit to any individual employee. A company's interests can be aligned with employees, indeed typically you want good employee retention and high morale which can only come from creating a company where people want to work, but companies do not exist to maximize employment and employee compensation.

titusjohnson 5y ago
A company is nothing more than the collection of its employees. Without employees, the company does not exist. There may be some legal fiction around registration and taxes and similar, but make no mistake, without people those legal fictions cannot make plans, cannot advocate for itself, cannot change direction, _cannot exist_. A company is its people. Full stop.
- gapurov 5y ago
  Saying a company is its employees, is like saying a bunch of dots randomly placed on a piece of paper would magically create a line. People playing a crucial part in a company, but without founders, well oiled processes and risks taken, these people would not be able to create what a company creates in terms of products and profit.
  - burkaman 5y ago
    I think this is a fundamental philosophical difference that we're not going to resolve in a comment thread. For me "a company is its workforce" is almost tautological, I don't even know how to explain it further. I don't know how to argue with your objections either, it seems like you're agreeing. Founders are people, processes are designed by people, risks are taken by people. All these people make up the workforce. That's what a company is.
- jjk166 5y ago
  My car needs wheels. My car isn't just its wheels. My car does not exist for the benefit of its wheels.