9 ms·

I have a vote if I'm in a union. I don't have a vote with my employer except to leave, and the process of finding a new job with a new employer is very long, pa

I have a vote if I'm in a union. I don't have a vote with my employer except to leave, and the process of finding a new job with a new employer is very long, painful, and uncertain.

skeeter2020 5y ago
If you're skilled and valuable it's also really painful and uncertain for your employer; that's your "vote"
- mabub24 5y ago
  You have to be careful with this line of reasoning. In the absence of a social safety net, being "not skilled" or "not valuable" from the perspective of an employer easily becomes being not valuable as a person, they "deserve" what happens to them because they are at fault. When your employer is your source of healthcare, retirement, and livelihood, the idea that it can arbitrarily control the basis of your health and dignity is grotesque. The line of reasoning seems fine when you are "skilled and valuable" from the perspective of your employer, but you might not be seen that way. Insisting that someone pays some price for that beyond simply not ending up wealthy is needlessly cruel. Despite our focus on it, there is more to life than being subservient to profit.
  - Xylakant 5y ago
    I know people that are skilled and valuable, but they still don't have the savings to fund their life for an extended period of time. And since they live in a country that doesn't pay reasonable unemployment money, they can only switch jobs when the jobs line up perfectly. Saying "this sucks, I quit" is not an option for them. They have family that relies on them. The employer nearly always has the better negotiation position.
- KittenInABox 5y ago
  When I leave a company the company loses out on a cog in their wheel. When a company leaves me, they also take from me a way to access healthcare, which is life-threatening given my medical profile. It's not really the same.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    You can still access healthcare for a period of time under COBRA. https://www.healthcare.gov/unemployed/cobra-coverage/ https://www.healthcare.gov/unemployed/cobra-coverage/ This law was passed to address employment gaps as you described. If you can't get a new job in that time, then it's time to look for a ACA solution for unemployed workers (insurance premiums limited to a percentage of income) or apply for disability or some other issue depending on your circumstances. Health care insurance is pretty well subsidized for the unemployed and the poor, the issue is that providers zap the middle class with unexpected bills and extremely high bills that are not covered by insurance. E.g. the old losing your savings because of a snake-bite problem, which can hit both the employed and the unemployed. Back when I lived in SF, SF General famously refused to accept insurance from anyone. Their entire business model was to charge outrageous bills and give free care to the indigent. That's why you'd get these 100K bills for a broken ankle. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18137967/er-bills-zuckerberg-san-francisco-general-hospital https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18137967/er... That's the big nightmare scenario for healthcare patients in the U.S.

I have a vote if I'm in a union. I don't have a vote with my employer except to leave, and the process of finding a new job with a new employer is very long, painful, and uncertain.

skeeter2020 5y ago

If you're skilled and valuable it's also really painful and uncertain for your employer; that's your "vote"

mabub24 5y ago
You have to be careful with this line of reasoning. In the absence of a social safety net, being "not skilled" or "not valuable" from the perspective of an employer easily becomes being not valuable as a person, they "deserve" what happens to them because they are at fault. When your employer is your source of healthcare, retirement, and livelihood, the idea that it can arbitrarily control the basis of your health and dignity is grotesque. The line of reasoning seems fine when you are "skilled and valuable" from the perspective of your employer, but you might not be seen that way. Insisting that someone pays some price for that beyond simply not ending up wealthy is needlessly cruel. Despite our focus on it, there is more to life than being subservient to profit.
- Xylakant 5y ago
  I know people that are skilled and valuable, but they still don't have the savings to fund their life for an extended period of time. And since they live in a country that doesn't pay reasonable unemployment money, they can only switch jobs when the jobs line up perfectly. Saying "this sucks, I quit" is not an option for them. They have family that relies on them. The employer nearly always has the better negotiation position.
KittenInABox 5y ago
When I leave a company the company loses out on a cog in their wheel. When a company leaves me, they also take from me a way to access healthcare, which is life-threatening given my medical profile. It's not really the same.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  You can still access healthcare for a period of time under COBRA. https://www.healthcare.gov/unemployed/cobra-coverage/ https://www.healthcare.gov/unemployed/cobra-coverage/ This law was passed to address employment gaps as you described. If you can't get a new job in that time, then it's time to look for a ACA solution for unemployed workers (insurance premiums limited to a percentage of income) or apply for disability or some other issue depending on your circumstances. Health care insurance is pretty well subsidized for the unemployed and the poor, the issue is that providers zap the middle class with unexpected bills and extremely high bills that are not covered by insurance. E.g. the old losing your savings because of a snake-bite problem, which can hit both the employed and the unemployed. Back when I lived in SF, SF General famously refused to accept insurance from anyone. Their entire business model was to charge outrageous bills and give free care to the indigent. That's why you'd get these 100K bills for a broken ankle. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18137967/er-bills-zuckerberg-san-francisco-general-hospital https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18137967/er... That's the big nightmare scenario for healthcare patients in the U.S.