5 ms·

Massive props to John Carmack! We also need laws to protect consumers when they don’t have an enlightened champion on their side. Part of the reason I buy Appl

Massive props to John Carmack! We also need laws to protect consumers when they don’t have an enlightened champion on their side. Part of the reason I buy Apple devices is because Apple is unlikely to get acquired or go out of business for the foreseeable future. I wish there were viable alternatives. Android devices are not an option for me, as they are more likely to be abandoned and/or contain Google/manufacturer/carrier malware, and I need to use banking and work apps. In that same vein, I have a preorder for a Framework Laptop because, at least for actual computers, I have the option of not splurging on a non-upgradeable, non-customizable Apple device. We really shouldn’t have to wait for Librarian of Congress-granted exemptions, which can be rescinded at any time and are meaningless with locked-down devices anyway.

soylentcola 5y ago
Oddly enough, this is why I stopped buying iOS devices. With my old Android phones/the one Android tablet I got I was able to install something useful and pared-down once they became older and unsupported. They work fine as readers/browsers on my home network or as "fancy" remotes and local-network media players. The only old iOS device I haven't sold/tossed is an iPad 2 which is unbearably slow for most things, and I can neither downgrade the OS or install some lighter alternative. Plus it needs a new 30-pin power cable but I haven't gotten around to buying one because all the other old devices just use one of a pile of USB cables I have stashed around. As far as I'm concerned, at least in terms of repurposing older devices, iOS is like the old consoles where it's essentially stuck once there are no more "official" updates. If it boots Android, there's a decent chance I can install something custom on it years later.
- treesknees 5y ago
  As long as that Android device has an unlocked bootloader, or an exploit to bypass the bootloader. The same thing can be said about iOS devices (other than perhaps a lack of 3rd party operating systems to install in the first place.)
- ralmidani 5y ago
  All valid points. But I’ve made the mistake of trading in or losing all of my old Android phones which had unlocked bootloaders. Also, installing a phone OS is more intimidating to me than, say, putting Debian on a laptop/desktop. I’m happy to go into a BIOS, play with voltages, overclock, etc. but please don’t ask me to hold some combination of buttons to start a process that can easily brick my phone.
  - Pfhortune 5y ago
    As someone who has loaded custom roms on more than a couple of dozen Android devices over the years, it is really hard to brick a device installing an OS. The closest I came was an Xperia Play years ago, but even that was recoverable after pulling the battery. These days there are some decently high guardrails for not bricking a device, as long as you follow installation instructions.
- kall 5y ago
  Hm, I have an OG iPad that runs a few excellent apps (TouchOSC, Animoog, Samplr) well enough that it‘s still a worthwhile device with just those. TouchOSC in particular should get massive props. As of last year, it was still able to update and is solid and super responsive. The App Store still works and I can download the last compatible version of any app I own.
  - ThatPlayer 5y ago
    Except for Safari, which is tied to OS updates. And of course Apple don't allow other browsers on the store so now you're stuck on the outdated browser. I know my old iPad has issues with Home Assistant's web interface for example.
    - sbarre 5y ago
      Apple allows other browsers in the App Store. I have Chrome on my iPad. Or do you mean the underlying rendering engine?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - kall 5y ago
      Yeah safari barely works on it, which is maybe half because its outdated and half because websites have gotten a lot heavier since then. The iPad had a tiny amount of RAM by today‘s standards. Something like 512 MB, or even 255? iOS was aggressive about killing apps (esp safari) when RAM runs out. Not sure if it can even swap, or could back then?
- m45t3r 5y ago
  Yeah. I had a LG G Pad 8.3 (2013) that I used as much as last year until the screen separated from its body and started to fail as an effect. Was using it with LineageOS (don't remember the exactly version, but it was either Android 9 or 10), and it also allowed to tweak the scheduler so the CPU would always run at pretty much the maximum speed. The battery life was obviously bad but would still get one day of reading/watching videos (that was pretty much the main usage I had for it), and thanks for the tweaked scheduler the UI was not that laggy (it was laggy, but not worse than an actual low-end device). Also, different from iOS at least Google still pushes updates for important parts of the system (Chrome, WebView, etc.), so at least for casual navigation it wasn't horrible insecure.
  - h43k3r 5y ago
    This is exactly what I did. I imported my GPad in 2013. It is still working as a pdf reader with its screen seperated. I am planning to do some DIY fix and going to donate it. There are many kids here in India who needs a digital device to do their online classes but have to use a small screen phone
- Lammy 5y ago
  This doesn't invalidate your argument (which I agree with) since it's unofficial and relies on exploits, but you should be able to downgrade your iPad 2 thanks to its unpatchable bootrom exploit and the fact that Apple apparently has to keep iOS 6.1.3 and 8.4.1 signed for that model specifically https://github.com/LukeZGD/iOS-OTA-Downgrader/wiki/How-to-Use https://github.com/LukeZGD/iOS-OTA-Downgrader/wiki/How-to-Us...
  - captn3m0 5y ago
    I run iOS 8 on my iPad 2 (downgraded from iOS 9, which made it super slow). Unfortunately, Apple doesn't let you download old versions of apps unless you installed them at the time, so the device usage is restricted to "what I used the device for then", which hinders a lot.
kingcharles 5y ago
Apple is one of the only companies I dare buy content from because they are too big to be acquired. I (begrudgingly) wrote DRM code to encrypt all the music for one of Apple's competitors and then they got acquired and all the music and video was just dead bytes on the users' hard drives and there were no refunds. Still, Apple is known to lock people's accounts for a variety of bogus reasons and then all your purchased content is lost.
makeitdouble 5y ago
Are current Apple products still worth that trust ? I had to repair an old Macbook, and while Apple is still in business they won't take repairs for out of support products. Official repair shops seem to have some access to old pieces, but I don't know how long it will last, my laptop got its part from another junk laptop. Then the current crop of Apple product have unreplaceable parts for third party shops, especially anything touching the secure enclaves. I kinda doubt Apple being in business will help on the supoort side for 5 or 10 years older products.
- ralmidani 5y ago
  I agree, and for non-work computers I’m trying to move away from Apple. But for phones and tablets, I don’t see any viable alternatives (yet).

soylentcola 5y ago

Oddly enough, this is why I stopped buying iOS devices. With my old Android phones/the one Android tablet I got I was able to install something useful and pared-down once they became older and unsupported. They work fine as readers/browsers on my home network or as "fancy" remotes and local-network media players. The only old iOS device I haven't sold/tossed is an iPad 2 which is unbearably slow for most things, and I can neither downgrade the OS or install some lighter alternative. Plus it needs a new 30-pin power cable but I haven't gotten around to buying one because all the other old devices just use one of a pile of USB cables I have stashed around. As far as I'm concerned, at least in terms of repurposing older devices, iOS is like the old consoles where it's essentially stuck once there are no more "official" updates. If it boots Android, there's a decent chance I can install something custom on it years later.

treesknees 5y ago
As long as that Android device has an unlocked bootloader, or an exploit to bypass the bootloader. The same thing can be said about iOS devices (other than perhaps a lack of 3rd party operating systems to install in the first place.)
ralmidani 5y ago
All valid points. But I’ve made the mistake of trading in or losing all of my old Android phones which had unlocked bootloaders. Also, installing a phone OS is more intimidating to me than, say, putting Debian on a laptop/desktop. I’m happy to go into a BIOS, play with voltages, overclock, etc. but please don’t ask me to hold some combination of buttons to start a process that can easily brick my phone.
- Pfhortune 5y ago
  As someone who has loaded custom roms on more than a couple of dozen Android devices over the years, it is really hard to brick a device installing an OS. The closest I came was an Xperia Play years ago, but even that was recoverable after pulling the battery. These days there are some decently high guardrails for not bricking a device, as long as you follow installation instructions.
kall 5y ago
Hm, I have an OG iPad that runs a few excellent apps (TouchOSC, Animoog, Samplr) well enough that it‘s still a worthwhile device with just those. TouchOSC in particular should get massive props. As of last year, it was still able to update and is solid and super responsive. The App Store still works and I can download the last compatible version of any app I own.
- ThatPlayer 5y ago
  Except for Safari, which is tied to OS updates. And of course Apple don't allow other browsers on the store so now you're stuck on the outdated browser. I know my old iPad has issues with Home Assistant's web interface for example.
  - sbarre 5y ago
    Apple allows other browsers in the App Store. I have Chrome on my iPad. Or do you mean the underlying rendering engine?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - kall 5y ago
    Yeah safari barely works on it, which is maybe half because its outdated and half because websites have gotten a lot heavier since then. The iPad had a tiny amount of RAM by today‘s standards. Something like 512 MB, or even 255? iOS was aggressive about killing apps (esp safari) when RAM runs out. Not sure if it can even swap, or could back then?
m45t3r 5y ago
Yeah. I had a LG G Pad 8.3 (2013) that I used as much as last year until the screen separated from its body and started to fail as an effect. Was using it with LineageOS (don't remember the exactly version, but it was either Android 9 or 10), and it also allowed to tweak the scheduler so the CPU would always run at pretty much the maximum speed. The battery life was obviously bad but would still get one day of reading/watching videos (that was pretty much the main usage I had for it), and thanks for the tweaked scheduler the UI was not that laggy (it was laggy, but not worse than an actual low-end device). Also, different from iOS at least Google still pushes updates for important parts of the system (Chrome, WebView, etc.), so at least for casual navigation it wasn't horrible insecure.
- h43k3r 5y ago
  This is exactly what I did. I imported my GPad in 2013. It is still working as a pdf reader with its screen seperated. I am planning to do some DIY fix and going to donate it. There are many kids here in India who needs a digital device to do their online classes but have to use a small screen phone
Lammy 5y ago
This doesn't invalidate your argument (which I agree with) since it's unofficial and relies on exploits, but you should be able to downgrade your iPad 2 thanks to its unpatchable bootrom exploit and the fact that Apple apparently has to keep iOS 6.1.3 and 8.4.1 signed for that model specifically https://github.com/LukeZGD/iOS-OTA-Downgrader/wiki/How-to-Use https://github.com/LukeZGD/iOS-OTA-Downgrader/wiki/How-to-Us...
- captn3m0 5y ago
  I run iOS 8 on my iPad 2 (downgraded from iOS 9, which made it super slow). Unfortunately, Apple doesn't let you download old versions of apps unless you installed them at the time, so the device usage is restricted to "what I used the device for then", which hinders a lot.

kingcharles 5y ago

Apple is one of the only companies I dare buy content from because they are too big to be acquired. I (begrudgingly) wrote DRM code to encrypt all the music for one of Apple's competitors and then they got acquired and all the music and video was just dead bytes on the users' hard drives and there were no refunds. Still, Apple is known to lock people's accounts for a variety of bogus reasons and then all your purchased content is lost.

makeitdouble 5y ago

Are current Apple products still worth that trust ? I had to repair an old Macbook, and while Apple is still in business they won't take repairs for out of support products. Official repair shops seem to have some access to old pieces, but I don't know how long it will last, my laptop got its part from another junk laptop. Then the current crop of Apple product have unreplaceable parts for third party shops, especially anything touching the secure enclaves. I kinda doubt Apple being in business will help on the supoort side for 5 or 10 years older products.

ralmidani 5y ago
I agree, and for non-work computers I’m trying to move away from Apple. But for phones and tablets, I don’t see any viable alternatives (yet).