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- Fat rolodex full of rich people they know well enough that they might say yes to chatting over golf, and who aren't risk-averse (I have zero such people in mi

- Fat rolodex full of rich people they know well enough that they might say yes to chatting over golf, and who aren't risk-averse (I have zero such people in mine, so this would be a must). - Domain knowledge—but, very specifically, knowledge of how to navigate the legal and business environment of that domain, especially all the "secret" stuff. If they don't know what X or Y is called or how to do some procedure that only low-on-the-totem-pole people do, that's fine—if they've got the rest of this, then they'll surely know people we can ask/interview for those parts. - At least enough sales skills to get the folks from the first point to fund us OR to make some useful introductions OR to grease some wheels.

neonate 5y ago
Are golf and such things still important to startups nowadays? I would have hoped that was dying off already.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  It's probally Ultimate Frisbie, but dear old dad who putters on the green has money, and connections. And helps out wayward Chad after they figure out what excites them in life. A sympathetic wealthy dad is the key to success too much of the time. Of course Chadwick tells everyone his Horatio Algers bootstrap Ramen journey to success story if the company ever pans out. (Purposely didn't use commas. Why--too disenfranchised to care anymore.)
- Kluny 5y ago
  You can meet people at improv club, hockey or mountain biking instead, but you still have to meet people somehow, right?
  - lisper 5y ago
    And you are much more likely to meet potential investors on a golf course than at an improv club.
- aketchum 5y ago
  "golf" is just a euphemism that sometimes literally means golf, but other times means any type of social activity that can be used to build relationships. What did you hope was dying off? There will always be a need for people who have and can form strong relationships with rich people who are looking for new investments.
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  Some people still think the biggest deals are happening on the golf course, I think most deals over the past 18 months likely happened via zoom.
  - dgfitz 5y ago
    Oh I'm not so sure. I know a LOT of people who took up golf during last summer/fall. It was one of the few outdoor sports you could safely play with friends.
    - bastardoperator 5y ago
      I did top golf, but it wasn't to make business deals, it was to get out of the house.
- RussianCow 5y ago
  This is very far from dying off. A friend of mine recently started a company, and close to 100% of the money they raised was a direct result of squeezing into golf games, ski trips, and retreats with prospective investors. My salesperson friends regularly score very large deals over games of golf or similar activities. You'd think that the merits of your product would be enough to carry your sales, but in practice, sales is primarily driven by your network, which involves getting close to as many people as possible. Turns out, it's easier to do that over golf than via formal meetings.
  - H8crilA 5y ago
    And why would it die? Would you choose your romantic partner just by reading their PDF "prospectus", or during a ski trip (which will certainly include discussion on the key parts of the "prospects")?
- handrous 5y ago
  So are country clubs, and social clubs that organize fundraising galas and such. Joining them to make useful business contacts very probably works pretty well (I've not tried, but I've done some looking—note that the social clubs are usually exclusively for women—yes, even in 2021—but men attend the events). Tennis is still huge. Skiing. That stuff changes slowly, if at all—you and I just aren't part of it, so we can imagine it's some old-fashioned thing that's all but extinct, if we don't go looking for it. Most of the shit from the now-ancient Official Preppy Handbook is still basically true, in fact, as far as I can tell. The tech version of "where to meet people to make connections" is probably rock climbing gyms, right now. That'd be for barely-rich new money people connected to tech, or for programmers if you're looking to hire. Every group has their in-crowd preferences.
  - JanisL 5y ago
    Completely agree with all this. One thing that makes rock climbing and golf good for building connections is that there's relatively large gaps in time where you can talk with people while doing the activity (eg walking to the next hole, waiting for someone to finish a climb, etc). Some other activities just don't have this same dynamic so while you'd meet people for sure it would take longer to have conversations with people.
- snarf21 5y ago
  I think it is still important to Angels. Angels want to invest in people/teams that are "like" them. They are more likely to trust other country club types that they assume have the same background and social circles they do. A lot of Angels don't care about the money or the return, it is about having stuff to talk about over drinks or between holes on the course. "I'm in a couple of blockchain start-ups that are really promising". It is about being interesting and in the know. Viability is meaningless.
- kilbuz 5y ago
  Golf was big and is now bigger. Drawing in many younger folks, too.
- mbesto 5y ago
  If you're in enterprise software, yes. Try selling your CRM to the VP of Sales of a regional retailer who lives in Phoenix and NOT take him out to play golf.
sergiotapia 5y ago
>Fat rolodex full of rich people they know well enough that they might say yes to chatting over golf, and who aren't risk-averse (I have zero such people in mine, so this would be a must). I've seen this first hand. Having a good sales team is like a cheat code - things flow like water and it feels like you're hardly struggling at all. And yes, "golf" is still a thing.

neonate 5y ago

Are golf and such things still important to startups nowadays? I would have hoped that was dying off already.

hellbannedguy 5y ago
It's probally Ultimate Frisbie, but dear old dad who putters on the green has money, and connections. And helps out wayward Chad after they figure out what excites them in life. A sympathetic wealthy dad is the key to success too much of the time. Of course Chadwick tells everyone his Horatio Algers bootstrap Ramen journey to success story if the company ever pans out. (Purposely didn't use commas. Why--too disenfranchised to care anymore.)
Kluny 5y ago
You can meet people at improv club, hockey or mountain biking instead, but you still have to meet people somehow, right?
- lisper 5y ago
  And you are much more likely to meet potential investors on a golf course than at an improv club.
aketchum 5y ago
"golf" is just a euphemism that sometimes literally means golf, but other times means any type of social activity that can be used to build relationships. What did you hope was dying off? There will always be a need for people who have and can form strong relationships with rich people who are looking for new investments.
bastardoperator 5y ago
Some people still think the biggest deals are happening on the golf course, I think most deals over the past 18 months likely happened via zoom.
- dgfitz 5y ago
  Oh I'm not so sure. I know a LOT of people who took up golf during last summer/fall. It was one of the few outdoor sports you could safely play with friends.
  - bastardoperator 5y ago
    I did top golf, but it wasn't to make business deals, it was to get out of the house.
RussianCow 5y ago
This is very far from dying off. A friend of mine recently started a company, and close to 100% of the money they raised was a direct result of squeezing into golf games, ski trips, and retreats with prospective investors. My salesperson friends regularly score very large deals over games of golf or similar activities. You'd think that the merits of your product would be enough to carry your sales, but in practice, sales is primarily driven by your network, which involves getting close to as many people as possible. Turns out, it's easier to do that over golf than via formal meetings.
- H8crilA 5y ago
  And why would it die? Would you choose your romantic partner just by reading their PDF "prospectus", or during a ski trip (which will certainly include discussion on the key parts of the "prospects")?
handrous 5y ago
So are country clubs, and social clubs that organize fundraising galas and such. Joining them to make useful business contacts very probably works pretty well (I've not tried, but I've done some looking—note that the social clubs are usually exclusively for women—yes, even in 2021—but men attend the events). Tennis is still huge. Skiing. That stuff changes slowly, if at all—you and I just aren't part of it, so we can imagine it's some old-fashioned thing that's all but extinct, if we don't go looking for it. Most of the shit from the now-ancient Official Preppy Handbook is still basically true, in fact, as far as I can tell. The tech version of "where to meet people to make connections" is probably rock climbing gyms, right now. That'd be for barely-rich new money people connected to tech, or for programmers if you're looking to hire. Every group has their in-crowd preferences.
- JanisL 5y ago
  Completely agree with all this. One thing that makes rock climbing and golf good for building connections is that there's relatively large gaps in time where you can talk with people while doing the activity (eg walking to the next hole, waiting for someone to finish a climb, etc). Some other activities just don't have this same dynamic so while you'd meet people for sure it would take longer to have conversations with people.
snarf21 5y ago
I think it is still important to Angels. Angels want to invest in people/teams that are "like" them. They are more likely to trust other country club types that they assume have the same background and social circles they do. A lot of Angels don't care about the money or the return, it is about having stuff to talk about over drinks or between holes on the course. "I'm in a couple of blockchain start-ups that are really promising". It is about being interesting and in the know. Viability is meaningless.
kilbuz 5y ago
Golf was big and is now bigger. Drawing in many younger folks, too.
mbesto 5y ago
If you're in enterprise software, yes. Try selling your CRM to the VP of Sales of a regional retailer who lives in Phoenix and NOT take him out to play golf.

sergiotapia 5y ago

>Fat rolodex full of rich people they know well enough that they might say yes to chatting over golf, and who aren't risk-averse (I have zero such people in mine, so this would be a must). I've seen this first hand. Having a good sales team is like a cheat code - things flow like water and it feels like you're hardly struggling at all. And yes, "golf" is still a thing.