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> If I asked them how we should be compensated as a group it would quickly be apparent they vote for the lowest common denominator. You don't think that their

> If I asked them how we should be compensated as a group it would quickly be apparent they vote for the lowest common denominator. You don't think that their answer to "how much should we be paid" would be more directionally aligned with yours than with your employer's answer?

refurb 5y ago
Your question is the wrong one. The employer is at the other side of the table, union or not. The right question is - would my colleagues do a better job negotiating my compensation than I would?
- burkaman 5y ago
  Yeah, and for most people the answer is obviously yes, because as an individual they have close to zero leverage and as a group they have a fair amount. That may not be true for you specifically, but it is true for the majority of workers.
- mekkkkkk 5y ago
  Isn't the idea to arrive at a salary that is fair to all parties? If you are good at negotiating, then perhaps you can be a voice for your workplace as a whole, instead of leaving the less gifted negotiators lacking. Even if you completely despise your co-workers, the idea and support for unions is about systematic worker influence rather that "everyone will get a raise".
- CountSessine 5y ago
  In practice (I have experience with union labour), it depends. The older workers will usually step forward in negotiations and secure plum benefits for themselves, very often at the expense of younger workers. Don't get me wrong - I think everyone does better with union negotiations (even managers to some extent - at least with a union contract, everyone's expectations are clear). But it definitely pays to be represented there at the negotiating table. It's a challenge to convince the younger workers to take an interest in this.
- betterunix2 5y ago
  "The right question is - would my colleagues do a better job negotiating my compensation than I would?" Probably. We often tell ourselves that we are better able to negotiate on our own behalf than anyone else, but the truth is that unionized workers usually receive better compensation than non-unionized workers. To put this another way, if you said you were thinking about quitting, would your employer respond by offering a raise? If you were embroiled in some kind of scandal and had to either quit or be fired, would you receive a severance? If not, then you are not important enough to have any real leverage to negotiate your compensation. As an individual you are probably easy to replace, and certainly much easier to replace than the entire workforce -- which is why unions usually negotiate better compensation than individuals.

refurb 5y ago

Your question is the wrong one. The employer is at the other side of the table, union or not. The right question is - would my colleagues do a better job negotiating my compensation than I would?

burkaman 5y ago
Yeah, and for most people the answer is obviously yes, because as an individual they have close to zero leverage and as a group they have a fair amount. That may not be true for you specifically, but it is true for the majority of workers.
mekkkkkk 5y ago
Isn't the idea to arrive at a salary that is fair to all parties? If you are good at negotiating, then perhaps you can be a voice for your workplace as a whole, instead of leaving the less gifted negotiators lacking. Even if you completely despise your co-workers, the idea and support for unions is about systematic worker influence rather that "everyone will get a raise".
CountSessine 5y ago
In practice (I have experience with union labour), it depends. The older workers will usually step forward in negotiations and secure plum benefits for themselves, very often at the expense of younger workers. Don't get me wrong - I think everyone does better with union negotiations (even managers to some extent - at least with a union contract, everyone's expectations are clear). But it definitely pays to be represented there at the negotiating table. It's a challenge to convince the younger workers to take an interest in this.
betterunix2 5y ago
"The right question is - would my colleagues do a better job negotiating my compensation than I would?" Probably. We often tell ourselves that we are better able to negotiate on our own behalf than anyone else, but the truth is that unionized workers usually receive better compensation than non-unionized workers. To put this another way, if you said you were thinking about quitting, would your employer respond by offering a raise? If you were embroiled in some kind of scandal and had to either quit or be fired, would you receive a severance? If not, then you are not important enough to have any real leverage to negotiate your compensation. As an individual you are probably easy to replace, and certainly much easier to replace than the entire workforce -- which is why unions usually negotiate better compensation than individuals.