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Why has TSMC succeeded where Intel has failed?

dragontamer 5y ago
> Why has TSMC succeeded where Intel has failed? Everyone is buying the same machines from ASML. Machines aren't the issue, its process. Its nitty gritty manufacturing details that no one will talk about (because those details are the "moat", the secret sauce that makes TSMC do something that Intel can't). It looks like Intel has figured out 7nm, just much later than expected.
AlphaSite 5y ago
Intel takes huge leaps, it’s how they kept 5e it lead for so long, but TSMC makes incremental progress and it’s paid off now that things are getting extremely difficult.
filereaper 5y ago
Leadership. TSMC has competent leaders like Morris Chang and Mark Liu. Intel had lost it's way after Andy Grove gave up the helm. Pat Gelsinger grew up under Gordon and Grove and the old guard is back.
- bsder 5y ago
  Actually, it's more than just the executive slots. Intel is institutionally paranoid, and Grove is part of that fault. The old guard, even in engineering, is retiring/dying and have not groomed successors because that could have threatened their political position. Can Gelsinger really fix this? I suspect probably not.
Jensson 5y ago
USA paid its best engineers to do advertisements and finance speculations. It means USA will be best in the world at advertisements but naturally will lag behind in other fields.
- thedougd 5y ago
  Or in other words, Intel fell into the same management trap as other legacy tech providers. They focused on paying industry wide 'median' salaries and bled talent.
MichaelMoser123 5y ago
Intel and TSMC are all using lithography machines by ASML, so what is the difference? Are they using the same lithography machines? Is there a difference in production processes used at TSMC vs Intel? Does anyone know any details?
- MichaelMoser123 5y ago
  https://wccftech.com/intel-vs-tsmc-chip-war-has-started-and-heres-everything-you-need-to-know/ https://wccftech.com/intel-vs-tsmc-chip-war-has-started-and-... Here they say that TSMC has a lead in the number of EUV lithography machines. " in 2021 and 2022, TSMC will have acquired 40 - 50 EUV machines while Intel will have procured 13 - 20 machines. Estimates based on Dutch company ASML, who is the sole supplier of the machines, suggest that TSMC had anywhere in between 30 - 63 EUV scanners by the end of last year." But Intel is playing catch-up "even as TSMC currently leads in machine inventory, Intel's future inventory could render this advantage moot. Mr. Gelsinger's belief that Intel aims for "leadership by 2024" seems to follow this timeline as well."

> Why has TSMC succeeded where Intel has failed? Everyone is buying the same machines from ASML. Machines aren't the issue, its process. Its nitty gritty manufacturing details that no one will talk about (because those details are the "moat", the secret sauce that makes TSMC do something that Intel can't). It looks like Intel has figured out 7nm, just much later than expected.

AlphaSite 5y ago

Intel takes huge leaps, it’s how they kept 5e it lead for so long, but TSMC makes incremental progress and it’s paid off now that things are getting extremely difficult.

filereaper 5y ago

Leadership. TSMC has competent leaders like Morris Chang and Mark Liu. Intel had lost it's way after Andy Grove gave up the helm. Pat Gelsinger grew up under Gordon and Grove and the old guard is back.

bsder 5y ago
Actually, it's more than just the executive slots. Intel is institutionally paranoid, and Grove is part of that fault. The old guard, even in engineering, is retiring/dying and have not groomed successors because that could have threatened their political position. Can Gelsinger really fix this? I suspect probably not.

Jensson 5y ago

USA paid its best engineers to do advertisements and finance speculations. It means USA will be best in the world at advertisements but naturally will lag behind in other fields.

thedougd 5y ago
Or in other words, Intel fell into the same management trap as other legacy tech providers. They focused on paying industry wide 'median' salaries and bled talent.

MichaelMoser123 5y ago

Intel and TSMC are all using lithography machines by ASML, so what is the difference? Are they using the same lithography machines? Is there a difference in production processes used at TSMC vs Intel? Does anyone know any details?

MichaelMoser123 5y ago
https://wccftech.com/intel-vs-tsmc-chip-war-has-started-and-heres-everything-you-need-to-know/ https://wccftech.com/intel-vs-tsmc-chip-war-has-started-and-... Here they say that TSMC has a lead in the number of EUV lithography machines. " in 2021 and 2022, TSMC will have acquired 40 - 50 EUV machines while Intel will have procured 13 - 20 machines. Estimates based on Dutch company ASML, who is the sole supplier of the machines, suggest that TSMC had anywhere in between 30 - 63 EUV scanners by the end of last year." But Intel is playing catch-up "even as TSMC currently leads in machine inventory, Intel's future inventory could render this advantage moot. Mr. Gelsinger's belief that Intel aims for "leadership by 2024" seems to follow this timeline as well."