22 ms·
> allowing for a randomly discovered shrink wrapped headset twenty years from now to be able to update to the final software version, long after over-the-air up
by nicolaslem 5y ago
> allowing for a randomly discovered shrink wrapped headset twenty years from now to be able to update to the final software version, long after over-the-air update servers have been shut down.
This resonates so much with me. Each time I setup a new device that requires an Internet connection, I think about how we can enjoy booting 30 years old retro computers and how the next generation will not be able to do the same because of locked down hardware.
- AdmiralAsshat 5y agoThis is why I still try so hard to buy physical copies of games, and if there is a GOTY Edition, to have the DLC be on-disk, as opposed to being a bunch of download vouchers. I wanna be able to play the freaking game in ten years without worrying about whether the game/console's online service is still available to do some mandatory authentication or version check.
- dewey 5y ago> This is why I still try so hard to buy physical copies of games Aren't these also subject to disk rot?
- kfprt 5y agoDisk rot is slower than online service rot. The other day I tried FC3 blood dragon and it had an error because they shut the servers down. It hasn't even been 10 years.
- AdmiralAsshat 5y agoIt's certainly a possibility, but anecdotally, I have audio CDs from the late 80s that still play. Meanwhile, I have games I played 3-4 years ago on the PS3 that are severely hampered because the online components no longer work--the servers were either shut down, or in one case the company completely went under.
- mywittyname 5y agoUnfortunately, a lot of new releases need a 0-day patch to be playable. It's basically an anti-piracy/anti-early release measure. So if you really want to preserve a game on disk, you pretty much have to pick up another copy stamped at a later date to include all of the patches.
- abricot 5y agoGOTY editions rarely need 0-day patches.
- mywittyname 5y agoRight, that would be the "copy stamped at a later date which includes all the patches" version I was mentioning that you'd want to pick up if you own a new release copy.
- ralmidani 5y agoFor non-Nintendo Switch games, I buy from GOG whenever possible. It does require different taste in games (I grew up on Quest for Glory, Space Quest, and King’s Quest). You get a tried-and-true game, DRM-free, usually for dirt cheap, and it probably doesn’t require an RTX video card. It’s not for everyone, but it’s worked great for me.
- no_time 5y agoCalling it anti piracy is a bit of a stretch. It's just that companies realized that the printing of the physical media is no longer the point of no return from a development standpoint.
- touristtam 5y agoI stopped this the day I had to try an emulate a DOS environment to run a simple game.
- maximedupre 5y agoDo you mean locked-down software? Do you have examples of hardware that the next generation might not be able to boot 30 years later? I'm curious and ignorant :D
- selfhoster11 5y agoLots and lots of IoT requires internet access and servers to stay up and running for even initialising a device after a reset. Some require these servers to control the device once it's as up. I already own a smartwatch that cannot be enabled because the application that used to initialise it has patched out support for that model.
- nicolaslem 5y agoI was thinking about the Xbox One. Someone opening a shrink wrapped version in 30 years will have a useless brick because it needs to connect to Microsoft servers for the initial setup. I am not exactly sure what it does during this first exchange and how much of it is hardware/software but I'm pretty sure none of it is done in the final user's best interest.
- rchaud 5y agoThe same is true of some of the best work being done on the web, such as the NYTimes interactive infographics. Because they are so JS-heavy, and reliant on CI/CD pipelines for deployment, on custom CMSes, there is no way to archive them in the way that static pages containing just text and images can be archived on the Wayback Machine. Heck, even Flash projects from 15 years ago still run fine when compiled on Ruffle or some other Flash player.
- pabs3 5y agoIIRC IA archives full WARCs so replaying all the requests will be fine. The main issue will be browser compatibility with old HTML/CSS/images/JS.
- supermatt 5y agoInteresting (semi-related) video here from the graphics editor of NYT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=860d8usGC0o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=860d8usGC0o
- causi 5y agoDamn I miss being able to drop a URL into HTTRACK and then just having a whole website locally archived with everything working.
- genewitch 5y agoCould one argue that sites that can be backed up in this way (or via save site as: ) are probably worth being backed up, and sites that cannot, are not? I'd be willing to hear counter-examples, for sure.
- anthk 5y agoBack in the day I did that with Slashdot and some Spanish clone too as I didn't have internet at home.
- dzuc 5y agohttps://conifer.rhizome.org/ https://conifer.rhizome.org/ can do it
- metagame 5y agoIt's pretty likely they will; they'll just have to crack them first. Pretty much everyone does it with retro consoles today, since CDs are inconvenient and expensive for the core audience of that wants to play video games and DRM is always breakable. It'll probably be easier though, because it almost assuredly won't require you to take out a soldering iron, like you have to with most legacy consoles.
- londons_explore 5y agoAs systems get more complex, cracking/emulating them gets more effort. We already see this in old stuff. DOS games run great in dosbox, because the IBM PC was pretty simple. Same with the gameboy, snes, etc. When you get to more modern things like Windows 98 games, PS3 games, xbox360 games... Most of those are much harder to emulate/crack/archive. They have more complex copy protection schemes, interact more deeply with their OS and hardware, and emulating them is generally more effort. The next gen of stuff will interact with closed source now-defunct servers. Re-implementing those servers is very much possible... but a massive amount of effort. Effort that won't happen for most products ever.
- metagame 5y agoI think you have a few reasoning errors in your comment: The PS3 and 360 aren't actually harder to emulate because they have more complex copy protection; they're hard to emulate because they're very novel systems (hardware-wise) and developers had to use all sorts of tricks, which is something their successors are not. Meanwhile, the PS4 is literally just a PC and already has a pretty good emulator (if early), because the PS4 has desirable exclusives. The author of it only started writing it a couple years ago and it's already booting commercial games and has a handful playable; way faster than old emulator development was! The Xbox One is literally just an NT PC and lack of emulation is largely because there's not really a point to, yet; it's just a PC and has very few exclusives. The Switch is literally just a phone with a controller and had its first emulator booting commercial video games within the first two years, because it had desirable exclusives. The Quest is literally just a phone (even moreso, because it's literally Android and even their window manager is just a layer over Unity). It isn't emulated or cracked because it has no really great exclusives and Facebook allows as much piracy as you want. Windows 98 games are actually pretty easy to emulate; very little at all doesn't work with QEMU out of the box, and that heavy-handed approach probably isn't necessary for the consoles of the future; the PS4 has a great emulator that's basically just a compatibility layer like WINE is, because again, it's literally just a PC.
- gonehome 5y agoThis is part of the reason I'm excited about Urbit - it's the only project I've seen that has a hope of resolving this.
- samstave 5y agoRemember setting IRQ with dip switches on your 300 baud modem.... Computers are becoming (already are) 'black-boxes' -- non serviceable by the mainstream.... Thank Tim Apple
- 5faulker 5y agoCarmark is a legend in so many ways.
- erickhill 5y agoThis is precisely one of the key reasons I stick with Nintendo consoles for gaming. Sure, they sell plenty of connected games and online experiences, too, but I purchase all new games as physical "cartridges." This way in 20 years my son will be able to relive Breath of the Wild and a very large library of other Switch classics should he so desire.
- registeredcorn 5y agoI'm not sure if there's already a term for this, but the "lack of permanency" is going to be an absolutely massive problem for future genealogists. Here's an example of how genealogy research looks in the modern day: * Newspapers (Headlines, Obits, Engagement/Marriage announcements) * Handwritten letters * Census records * Physical photographs * [Depending on century, location, and religious denomination] Baptism records * Family Bibles * Military enlistment paperwork [assuming that it wasn't destroyed in a fire.] * White & Yellow pages Much of this physical information has been digitized, but for information that was birthed digitally is precariously susceptible to complete loss once a website goes offline, or a hard drive fails, or any other number of issues that happens to things over the centuries. War, the elements, material shortages, etc. There's other sources, of course. A big one is first-hand accounts of the past, but even such verbal interviews should be conducted with objects or photos to help jog the interviewees memories of the event. The majority of how personal memories are being stored are on phones, in hard drives, and other various media that are susceptible to bit rot, proprietary encryption methods, technology or social media platforms that have already gone defunct. This is a trend which is quickly increasing too. If some serious solutions aren't proposed and adopted very soon, it seems highly likely that there's basically just going to be a giant void from the late 90's to at least the 2030's. Heck, just think about how 10 to 20 years ago, the most common way to get a PC game was on CD. Now it would be an inconvenience because very few people even have a headphone jack, let alone a CD/DVD drive.
- flyinghamster 5y agoIt is refreshing indeed to see a move like this. Too many times, companies have just obsoleted products, turned off the servers and/or yanked the app (or had it yanked for them by $GATEKEEPER) needed for them to function, and left the buyers in the lurch. Speaking for myself, it's a huge factor in my disillusionment with tech. It was also the reason I've never bought a VR headset in the first place, even before Facebook wormed its way into Oculus. Is it too much to ask for vendors to do the right thing?
- emiliosic 5y agoI made the mistake of buying a Chumby clock (With Firmware signed by Sony, which likely maintained a VM somewhere to boot their clocks until they decided it wasn't worth the effort) without realizing that it needed an internet connection tho even boot and show the time of the day.
- charcircuit 5y ago>I think about how we can enjoy booting 30 years old retro computers and how the next generation will not be able to do the same because of locked down hardware. This seems pointless. My old phone is obsolete. There is literally no reason I would want to use it over my current phone. I could care less if it was bricked.
- doublepg23 5y ago> I think about how we can enjoy booting 30 years old retro computers and how the next generation will not be able to do the same because of locked down hardware. I worry about this too. It's been a great experience collecting and _using_ devices that were made a while before I was born. It's sad future generations might not be able to use the tech I'm enjoying now.
- KronisLV 5y agoHonestly, it feels like there should be a law about drivers and source code being made available after the end of life/support for any product, much like there should be right of repair laws. Anything else is essentially like renting hardware and letting the manufacturer forcefully make it into e-waste whenever they like.