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Science of Slow Cooking
- hericium 5y agoI find non-modern methods of food preparation more rewarding, since I quit smoking. After about a year I noticed that I gained a lot of appreciation for acidic food and started fiddling with lacto-fermentation. Now I'm not even attempting a mango-hananero sauce unless peppers aren't fermented for 3 months or more. I pressure cook, I slow cook, I smoke the shit out of everything that can be smoked. Tastes are awesome.
- jkubicek 5y agoFermented peppers are amazing, easily one of my favorite toppings for burgers, ramen, pizza, etc. If you haven't tried it, fermented tomatoes are super interesting. They create a weird yellow liquid that doesn't taste like anything I've ever tasted before.
- SamBam 5y agoMy daughter sealed a cherry tomato in a tiny jar at the start of the pandemic, just so we could watch it change. It's been just a parchment of skin floating in a pool of yellow liquid for months. I'm not going to taste it, though.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hericium 5y agoI ferment more pungent Chinense peppers in 3-5% brine for 6+ months in low temperature and then smoke them on apple+pecan wood with typical bell peppers soaked in 15% brine for 6 hours. Then there's drying, crushing and this makes a "smoked paprika" condiment very different to store bought. Less pungent Chinenses usually go dry or are smoked and dried for later use. Less pungent Annuum peppers like jalapeño go for 3-6 months of fermentation in 2% brine and are then turned into "cowboy candy" by soft-boiling in syrup, wrapped in sugar and dried. This is my favorite candy with no fat. Left-over bacteria water is my daily probiotic and pre-workout drink addition kept in the fridge.
- prometheus76 5y agoRelated: pickled onions on pork sandwiches (and about anything else you would normally use onions for) are a fantastic way to add some acidity to a dish.
- davidw 5y agoA bit about smoking meats, which is an ancient, but wonderful way of cooking them, would make an interesting addition. For instance, something that surprises some people the first time they cut into smoked meat is the red "smoke ring" at the edge of the meat, rather than the center: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_ring_(cooking) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_ring_(cooking)
- chomp 5y agoYeah, lot of myths about the smoke ring - you can put on some prague powder #1 about 20 minutes before cooking in the oven and you can replicate the ring. It's not a sign of a well done cook in all aspects, though it does add to the visual appeal. Another misconception is the people who aim for exact degrees when smoking (e.g. brisket) - 195 F, 202 F, etc. It's the total time spent above 160 (roughly where the stall is) that matters (if I remember correctly there's a peak around 170 F or 180 F that is maximum breakdown rate). A small brisket is going to get up to 202 quicker than a 15 lb brisket, and will wind up "drier" because the collagen did not break down as far. If the cook dialed their recipe in for total time for collagen to break down, the results might not be identical, but there would be a lot less variation.
- rotten 5y agoThis should be the "Science of Slow Cooking Meat". Rather than slow cooking in general.
- kevinmchugh 5y agoThis is pretty specific to slow cooking meat. There's lots of good ways to slow cook meat. I think slow cookers(aka Crockpots) have a lot of downsides. If I've got 8 hours to cook a piece of meat, I've probably got the time to sous vide, which I think gives better texture. If I had a smoker, I'd go that way for the flavor and texture. I'd rather braise in the oven as well. Crockpots are easy, and leave the oven free, but I think too often give a universal mushiness to many cuts. They can be used well for long meat cooks, but it's more difficult than it seems. For a bigger upfront purchase I think a pressure cooker is the better option for most. It's great to be able to pull off beans from dry in an hour, or high quality stock on an hour. A lot of the pressure cookers have slow cooker functionality built in, as well. Pressure cooked meats can have a different texture than traditionally cooked ones, but it's not as objectionable in my mind. If you liked the post thoughtfully linked here, Harold McGee's On Food and Cooking is a must.
- Mikeb85 5y ago> but I think too often give a universal mushiness to many cuts Lots of people like that, especially with sub-par cuts (blade roast anyone?).
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y agoI sometimes wonder how many cooking techniques exist specifically to "upgrade" lower quality ingredients. Slow cooking, spices ... it's likely not a huge list, but I suspect it forms a notable part of the world's cooking cultures.
- Mikeb85 5y agoAbsolutely. I grew up spending lots of time on a farm, I've lived in a 3rd world country, plus have cooked for a living. The fact is, the majority of an animal is shitty cuts of meat. Even something like short rib is 'premium' compared to much of the carcass. So slow-cooking is great to turn a blade or round roast into something that doesn't suck. And definitely, a huge part of every food culture is cooking these subpar cuts.
- mcclosdl 5y agoI mean it's pretty standard braising technique for something like chuck roast or short rib to go for 3.5-4 hours up to 205F internal temp and it to be amazing and not dry at all. Not sure why this page is ignoring this.
- wpasc 5y agoIrrelevant anecdote: I was cooking nachos and decided to try slow cooked carnitas for the first time (I like cooking but I'm not very good at it). It was truly mesmerizing seeing the way the pork meat stiffened at first and then slowly softened over time. I was roughly following J Kenji Lopez Alt's recipe (look him up if you want a great resource for all things cooking). I had incorrectly covered the pork at first so steam was escaping. Once rectified with some more time (3 hours total cook time) the meat took on a whole new quality of softness after having been quite tough at 2 hours. As a science enthusiast, learning more about the interplay of heat, time interacting with things like collagen, protein matrices, fats, cell walls for veggies makes cooking so much cooler and fun for me.
- aigo 5y ago> As a science enthusiast, learning more about the interplay of heat, time interacting with things like collagen, protein matrices, fats, cell walls for veggies makes cooking so much cooler and fun for me. You would love Harold McGee's book On Food and Cooking Some of the science was a little over my head but reading it has improved me a lot as a cook.
- chomp 5y ago> Since enzyme activity increases up to those temperatures, slow cooking can provide a significant aging effect during cooking. Meat should however be quickly seared or blanched first to kill surface microbes. I want to call out shio koji here. I prepared a steak dusted in it for 3 days, and it tasted identical to a 40 day dry aged steak. If you're looking to maximize enzymatic processes, dust your meat in mold!
- gremloni 5y agoPrepared it in your refrigerator? What’s the process? Sounds very interesting.
- ceejayoz 5y agoSerious Eats has some coverage of this. https://www.seriouseats.com/shio-koji-marinade https://www.seriouseats.com/shio-koji-marinade
- chomp 5y agoSure, so I grabbed a normal ribeye, dusted it with shio koji powder (might be at your local Asian food market, definitely on Amazon) and put it covered in the fridge for 48 hours. Make sure you get the actual powder, because if you get inoculated rice, you'll have to grind it up into a powder and it's a pain. The steak should look like a giant slab of brie when you put it in the fridge. I then washed off the powder, and cooked the steak like normal (read: sous vide). Steak had the familiar nutty day dry aged flavor (I compared with a dry aged steak I had cooked previously), and caramel coloring with the slightest, almost imperceptible sweetness of miso. It was magic. Be careful with the sear though, because I think some of the sugars are left behind, and it takes only maybe 30 seconds on each side instead of a minute. It'll get crusty much quicker than normal. Highly recommend if you're ok with molded food (e.g. blue cheese, brie, miso), and it's way way cheaper than getting something off the shelf as dry aged.
- gremloni 5y agoGreat, thanks. I just placed an order for shio koji on Amazon, can’t wait to try it out.
- verytrivial 5y agoWe have a rather dumb slow-cooker left by a previous tennant. 170W on High, with some lower value on Low and Warm. 95% of the heat added once it reaches temperature is lost the environment. Lame! Low Tech Magazine has a nice article on the topic [1] of 'Fireless Cookers' which while a bit bulky look like they could cut a lot of energy waste, esp. if there is a mini heating element to top-up heating losses. Thermos also make a 4.5L vacuum cooker ("Shuttle Chef") which looks ideal but it for some reason is eye-wateringly expensive and apparently only made in or for Japan. [1] https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2014/07/cooking-pot-insulation-key-to-sustainable-cooking.html https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2014/07/cooking-pot-insulati...
- com2kid 5y agoFrom your article: > the thermal efficiency varies from 13% for electric hobs to 23% for gas hobs They also have a graph showing induction as being less efficient than gas. Everything I have read recently says the exact opposite, that gas spews most of its energy into your house and very little into the pot, while a good flat top electric gets a large % into the pot and induction gets 100% of generated heat into the cooking vessel. (Though I don't know what efficiency induction operates on, obviously electric stoves are nearly 1W of energy in, 1W of heat out!) Unfortunately most articles comparing gas and electric compare energy costs to the consumer, not thermal efficiency, but I do come across papers such as https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2014/data/papers/9-702.pdf https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2014/data/papers/9-7... that are basically the exact opposite of what the site you linked says. Digging further, it looks like lowtechmagazine based their findings on https://mb.cision.com/Public/MigratedWpy/91653/9014629/ae07e9093116fbad.pdf https://mb.cision.com/Public/MigratedWpy/91653/9014629/ae07e... which is measuring losses due to grid transmission which seems to put electric at a distinct disadvantage. That paper does show the massive amount of heat gas stoves dump into the surrounding air, which depending on climate may then have to be removed, likely by an electric air conditioner, taking that into account gas shoots way up in energy costs. And of course that paper is from 2010, as the grid becomes renewable electric starts winning out in every possible direction.
- verytrivial 5y ago
- ipspam 5y agoVery neat article. I consider myself a novice at slow cooking meat. I've done Sous-Vide, crock pot, and Kamado cooking. By far, Kamado is king. Next time you think of buying a BBQ, find a used Kamado. Don't overthink it. Just do it. A little more prep, but not really more work. It's as simple as: 1. Stir the charcoal to get rid of the ash 2. Add more charcoal 3. Light charcoal, leave grill open. 4. Come back 15 mins later, set Kamado up (deflector plate, grills, etc) and close Kamado. 5a. Set up digital temperature control 5b. Wait 20 minutes and make temperature adjustment. 6. Wait 60-90 minutes, add meat. 7. Drink beer, relax. 8. Eat. It's really not complicated, especially if you are on Hacker News reading this. Add as much charcoal as you want. Leave the too vent half or 1/3 open. Control temperature with oxygen flow via the bottom door. It really is that simple. As for how this ties in to the article, a cubic centimeter of water will turn into 5500 cubic centimeters of steam. All the water in your meat will turn to vapor and exit the Kamado. But slowly. Which, as the article states is optimal because the high moisture in the air keeps meat moist over long cooks which allows the breakdown of collagen. The other cool thing is that the bigger a cut of meat, the longer it takes to cook, the MORE TIME it spends traversing from 160 degrees until the finish temperature. More time = better collagen breakdown. Anyway, completely concur, slow cooking meat is king. Where I dissent is that meat shouldn't be cooked IN water or fluid, and shouldn't be steamed. Crust is everything. Built that crust!
- Factorium 5y agoIf you're cooking bachelor chow, an electric pressure cooker is the superior method of cooking to anything else. I used to eat out about 80% of the time, at huge expense, but since buying a pressure cooker its 5%... There are plenty of recipes where you just throw in the ingredients, add a specific amount of water, set a specific time, and come back in 20minutes to a perfectly cooked meal. Its far less hassle than cooking with a pan etc, and uses less energy and water. Smaller items like hard-boiled eggs take about 5 minutes in total. You're also not venting cooking fumes and steam (and combusted natural gas) into your kitchen, so air quality, mold etc. is much improved.
- agumonkey 5y agoI wonder if power usage is also significantly better (rather than open air cooking)
- Factorium 5y agoAn induction cooktop and electric pressure cooker certainly makes a gas connection for the kitchen unnecessary. There's an interesting video from Adam Rageusa on how bad gas cooktops are: https://youtu.be/CcAJ3_-Hou8 https://youtu.be/CcAJ3_-Hou8 I think that gas cooktops and open-air cooking vessels are just used frequently because they're easy to show off on cooking shows... Its hard to make a Youtube video on things cooking in a sealed pressure cooker.
- agumonkey 5y agoI meant watts. How much a pressure cooker saved compared to an induction plate. probably a little. I've seen the gas vs electric argument too when I wanted to make a food truck. Cooks mostly prefer gas because of habits.
- lapetitejort 5y agoI am contractually obligated to hype up electric pressure cookers whenever mentioned. Some other dishes that can be cooked with ease: * Steel-cut oats * Potatoes * Dry beans * Yogurt * Tempeh * Cheesecake You can also sanitize containers for canning, saute, steam, and boil.
- Uhhrrr 5y agoSous vide and slow cooking are great, but Maillard browning is also great. So if you're interested in this article you're probably also going to be highly interested in this Kenji Lopez-Alt article: https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-reverse-sear-best-way-to-cook-steak https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-reverse-sear-best-way-to-...
- Jarwain 5y agoUsually when I sous vide something, I do a quick hot sear at the end to build a nice crust. I used to reverse sear before I got my sous vide and made some amazing steaks, but doing it with the sous vide takes the cake imo
- hondo77 5y agoI've been "reverse searing" my carnitas for several years: start in a crock pot, end in a cast iron skillet. Didn't know there was a term for it. Tender but with that Maillard crunch.
- cf100clunk 5y agoDupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8566965 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8566965 from 7 years ago. Also the connection to Science Of Slow Cooking at sciencecooking.com has timed out. I love irony. EDIT: it seems to be working properly now
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- donw 5y agoChef's rule of thumb: everything you do in a slow cooker (crock pot) can be done better and faster in a pressure cooker. Dried beans, for example. 4:1 water ratio; e.g., four cups of water per cup of dried beans. 1 tsp of sea salt per cup of dried beans. Bring to high pressure and cook for 25 minutes. Allow to naturally release. 2:1 yield (two cups of cooked beans out for every dry cup in) Perfectly soft, yet still intact, as long as you kept the temperature low during the cook. Steam should be just escaping from the pressure valve once you hit pressure, no more.