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Not supporting fraud seems like a reasonable option to me.

throwawayswede 5y ago
At least not defending it. You can find a million and one ways to justify being evil.
tomhoward 5y ago
It's a super-easy thing to say on a message board where none of us have any skin in the game. Can you point to the statement where he supported fraud or asserted that she was innocent of any crime? If you need me to I can point you to a statement where he said he wouldn't back her as a CEO again. You know it is possible to signal support to a friend and colleague when they're at rock bottom and with the entire world piling onto them, without endorsing the worst of their actions, right?
- rrss 5y ago
  Draper has repeatedly said that he doesn’t think Holmes did anything wrong. He thinks that her downfall is because of a “witch hunt,” that she is a “great icon” “bullied into submission” by a corrupt FDA and big healthcare, and has said that he is “thrilled” with what she did at theranos.
  - tomhoward 5y ago
    The last time I can find him saying anything about her fraud allegations was in May 2018, saying she's "innocent until proven guilty", which is a simple assertion of a fundamental legal principle, and a way of showing some humanity to a friend without defending or denying any crimes that may later be found to have been committed. The last time I can find him saying anything publicly about her, he said he wouldn't back her as CEO again - though he would back her as "chief science officer", before quickly changing the subject [2]. Again, he's clearly trying to show her some personal support as a friend and colleague when nobody else in the world will do that, whilst very clearly stopping short of endorsing or denying any criminal behaviour. What can you find that's more damning than this? And why is it so important to you that Tim Draper should have publicly trashed her? Is it not enough that basically every other media and investment figure in the world was trashing her? Do you not have anyone for whom you would publicly signal support, if they were at rock bottom and the rest of the world was piling onto them, even if you know they may have done the wrong thing? [1] https://cheddar.com/media/tim-draper-elizabeth-holmes-is-innocent-until-proven-guilty https://cheddar.com/media/tim-draper-elizabeth-holmes-is-inn... [2] https://theoutline.com/post/7157/one-of-theranos-first-investors-has-learned-approximately-nothing-from-its-implosion https://theoutline.com/post/7157/one-of-theranos-first-inves...
- FiberBundle 5y ago
  I agree that it's easy to say this here, but I still fail to see what example a VC would want to set by doing what Draper has done here. Is this supposed to show that he's standing behind his founders even if they commit fraud? There's a huge difference between being founder friendly and doing what Draper did imo.
  - tomhoward 5y ago
    As per the links in my most recent comment [1], he hasn't defended or denied any crimes of which she's been found guilty (she's yet to be found guilty of anything), and days after she was indicted in June 2018 said simply that she's "innocent until proven guilty". He's said basically nothing about her since. I can't find anything at all he's said publicly about her since March 2019, in which he notably reduced the level of support he was willing to express, and also notably said the barest minimum thing he could say in her support, before moving on as quickly as possible. You know there are people in the world who think things like: I was the first person to show her support when nobody else did, and so now I'm going to be the last person to keep supporting her when nobody else will. It won't cost me anything to show that I still care about her even if she's done wrong. If I don't, who else will? Some people sleep better at night doing that, rather than joining the mob taking delight in laying the boots in. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28958722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28958722

At least not defending it. You can find a million and one ways to justify being evil.

It's a super-easy thing to say on a message board where none of us have any skin in the game. Can you point to the statement where he supported fraud or asserted that she was innocent of any crime? If you need me to I can point you to a statement where he said he wouldn't back her as a CEO again. You know it is possible to signal support to a friend and colleague when they're at rock bottom and with the entire world piling onto them, without endorsing the worst of their actions, right?

rrss 5y ago
Draper has repeatedly said that he doesn’t think Holmes did anything wrong. He thinks that her downfall is because of a “witch hunt,” that she is a “great icon” “bullied into submission” by a corrupt FDA and big healthcare, and has said that he is “thrilled” with what she did at theranos.
- tomhoward 5y ago
  The last time I can find him saying anything about her fraud allegations was in May 2018, saying she's "innocent until proven guilty", which is a simple assertion of a fundamental legal principle, and a way of showing some humanity to a friend without defending or denying any crimes that may later be found to have been committed. The last time I can find him saying anything publicly about her, he said he wouldn't back her as CEO again - though he would back her as "chief science officer", before quickly changing the subject [2]. Again, he's clearly trying to show her some personal support as a friend and colleague when nobody else in the world will do that, whilst very clearly stopping short of endorsing or denying any criminal behaviour. What can you find that's more damning than this? And why is it so important to you that Tim Draper should have publicly trashed her? Is it not enough that basically every other media and investment figure in the world was trashing her? Do you not have anyone for whom you would publicly signal support, if they were at rock bottom and the rest of the world was piling onto them, even if you know they may have done the wrong thing? [1] https://cheddar.com/media/tim-draper-elizabeth-holmes-is-innocent-until-proven-guilty https://cheddar.com/media/tim-draper-elizabeth-holmes-is-inn... [2] https://theoutline.com/post/7157/one-of-theranos-first-investors-has-learned-approximately-nothing-from-its-implosion https://theoutline.com/post/7157/one-of-theranos-first-inves...
FiberBundle 5y ago
I agree that it's easy to say this here, but I still fail to see what example a VC would want to set by doing what Draper has done here. Is this supposed to show that he's standing behind his founders even if they commit fraud? There's a huge difference between being founder friendly and doing what Draper did imo.
- tomhoward 5y ago
  As per the links in my most recent comment [1], he hasn't defended or denied any crimes of which she's been found guilty (she's yet to be found guilty of anything), and days after she was indicted in June 2018 said simply that she's "innocent until proven guilty". He's said basically nothing about her since. I can't find anything at all he's said publicly about her since March 2019, in which he notably reduced the level of support he was willing to express, and also notably said the barest minimum thing he could say in her support, before moving on as quickly as possible. You know there are people in the world who think things like: I was the first person to show her support when nobody else did, and so now I'm going to be the last person to keep supporting her when nobody else will. It won't cost me anything to show that I still care about her even if she's done wrong. If I don't, who else will? Some people sleep better at night doing that, rather than joining the mob taking delight in laying the boots in. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28958722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28958722