4 ms·

Not sure why you’re getting downvotes, Ori is a good recommendation as a modern take on a Metroid-like game. But I strongly disagree about the difficulty. I’m

Not sure why you’re getting downvotes, Ori is a good recommendation as a modern take on a Metroid-like game. But I strongly disagree about the difficulty. I’m no pro gamer, but I am from the NES era and in Ori I don’t think I ever died? Or if I did, it certainly wasn’t more than once in an area. Ori is not even in the same league as the old platformers like Metroid, Megaman, Ninja Gaiden, etc.

anthk 5y ago
This. For us people living with NES/SNES/MD/GB plataforming games, Ori's difficulty was just the standard for its day. Metroid is easy, Megaman is hell.
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  Well, if you want to go toward hard games, you have Super Meat Boy, vvvvvv, and Cuphead. Or even games that scales from "finishable" to "very hard to 100%" like Celeste. So good hard games still exist. It's just not the default difficulty anymore. Mario, Tomb Raisers, they all became very casual. I don't mind, I still enjoyed the Switch mario. I'm getting older, and I don't want to have to memorize entire levels with a ms timing to get through anymore. But if you do want that, you can.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  The best Game Boy game I know of is Warioland 2, and you can't even die in that one.
- phamilton 5y ago
  I played Megaman recently and I was blown away by how often I had to memorize which part of the screen I had to fall through. Left, Center, Left, Right, Center, etc. And then I'd get it wrong and have to start all over. As an adult with things to do it was infuriating. As a 9 year old kid in the middle of summer it was fine. I wonder if 9 year olds today feel the same way?
  - gowld 5y ago
    Kids today hate that stuff because it's not the only option. They demand diverse content to fill 40hrs, not endless repetition.
    - anthk 5y ago
      Megaman had several different weapons.
stared 5y ago
Well, I compare it to something of a normal-hard level of the games from 80/90s. There were many simpler games (Mario Bros, Contra) even if still more difficult from the current ones. If you did the finished escape scenes on the very first run, my words of praise. The Ginso Tree took me something like an hour, and involved a bit of swearing (played on PC keyboard, I cannot compare it to pads). Many people quit the game at this point.
unsui 5y ago
2, if not 3, of the examples you provided are generally considered amongst the most difficult NES games, and in fact led to the trope of "Nintendo Hard" https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_hard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_hard Much of it had to do with the technical limitations of the systems, which often led to requiring pixel-perfect accuracy to avoid hitboxes. However, it also stems from the arcade legacy, where game plays were challenging and short, with very little handholding from the game design (i.e., throwing you in the deep end) Replaying games like Megaman II and Ninga Gaiden on emulators, I now get a visceral distaste for the overwhelming difficult; however, back when I played them as a kid, it was just the way games were, and I would routinely finish these games in the 2-day rental period allotted. (I assume some people have exactly the opposite reaction, pining for the days when games were merciless) Basically, our gaming sensibilities have evolved (or devolved) as the medium has grown over time.
- vikingerik 5y ago
  There's also the significant factor of input and display lag screwing up the timing, contributing to the perceived difficulty nowadays. Playing on real 6502 hardware with a CRT, you get instant response, 17 ms at most. But play on an emulator on any modern OS on most any modern "smart" TV, and all those layers of abstraction often add up to an unplayable 100 to 200 ms. I've shown several people the difference between Zelda II on a PC emulator versus a real NES and CRT, and they all agree the real thing feels immeasurably sharper. Even Nintendo's own Switch console has noticeable lag to me. It's less of a problem for Game Boy games, since their feel is more accommodating of lag in the first place, thanks to the slow response of the original LCD.
chongli 5y ago
I'd also go ahead and disagree that Ori is a retro game. The controls and movement mechanics are decidedly modern. Your protagonist has the ability to fluidly maneuver in the air, slide on walls, wall-jump at any time, and other such affordances. Compare this to a game like Castlevania where the jumping mechanics are a lot more rigid and unforgiving and wall-jumping is not possible. Even look at Super Metroid which does have wall-jumping but makes the action itself heavily reliant on timing and precise inputs. Modern games in general tend to heavily de-emphasize the demand for strict timing and input precision from the player. For an example of a proper retro game, created in the modern era but with the control difficulty of old NES games, look no further than La-Mulana [1]. Few people have played it and even fewer have finished the game but it's an extremely rewarding experience when you do. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La-Mulana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La-Mulana

anthk 5y ago

This. For us people living with NES/SNES/MD/GB plataforming games, Ori's difficulty was just the standard for its day. Metroid is easy, Megaman is hell.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago
Well, if you want to go toward hard games, you have Super Meat Boy, vvvvvv, and Cuphead. Or even games that scales from "finishable" to "very hard to 100%" like Celeste. So good hard games still exist. It's just not the default difficulty anymore. Mario, Tomb Raisers, they all became very casual. I don't mind, I still enjoyed the Switch mario. I'm getting older, and I don't want to have to memorize entire levels with a ms timing to get through anymore. But if you do want that, you can.
hypertele-Xii 5y ago
The best Game Boy game I know of is Warioland 2, and you can't even die in that one.
phamilton 5y ago
I played Megaman recently and I was blown away by how often I had to memorize which part of the screen I had to fall through. Left, Center, Left, Right, Center, etc. And then I'd get it wrong and have to start all over. As an adult with things to do it was infuriating. As a 9 year old kid in the middle of summer it was fine. I wonder if 9 year olds today feel the same way?
- gowld 5y ago
  Kids today hate that stuff because it's not the only option. They demand diverse content to fill 40hrs, not endless repetition.
  - anthk 5y ago
    Megaman had several different weapons.

stared 5y ago

Well, I compare it to something of a normal-hard level of the games from 80/90s. There were many simpler games (Mario Bros, Contra) even if still more difficult from the current ones. If you did the finished escape scenes on the very first run, my words of praise. The Ginso Tree took me something like an hour, and involved a bit of swearing (played on PC keyboard, I cannot compare it to pads). Many people quit the game at this point.

unsui 5y ago

2, if not 3, of the examples you provided are generally considered amongst the most difficult NES games, and in fact led to the trope of "Nintendo Hard" https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_hard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_hard Much of it had to do with the technical limitations of the systems, which often led to requiring pixel-perfect accuracy to avoid hitboxes. However, it also stems from the arcade legacy, where game plays were challenging and short, with very little handholding from the game design (i.e., throwing you in the deep end) Replaying games like Megaman II and Ninga Gaiden on emulators, I now get a visceral distaste for the overwhelming difficult; however, back when I played them as a kid, it was just the way games were, and I would routinely finish these games in the 2-day rental period allotted. (I assume some people have exactly the opposite reaction, pining for the days when games were merciless) Basically, our gaming sensibilities have evolved (or devolved) as the medium has grown over time.

vikingerik 5y ago
There's also the significant factor of input and display lag screwing up the timing, contributing to the perceived difficulty nowadays. Playing on real 6502 hardware with a CRT, you get instant response, 17 ms at most. But play on an emulator on any modern OS on most any modern "smart" TV, and all those layers of abstraction often add up to an unplayable 100 to 200 ms. I've shown several people the difference between Zelda II on a PC emulator versus a real NES and CRT, and they all agree the real thing feels immeasurably sharper. Even Nintendo's own Switch console has noticeable lag to me. It's less of a problem for Game Boy games, since their feel is more accommodating of lag in the first place, thanks to the slow response of the original LCD.

chongli 5y ago

I'd also go ahead and disagree that Ori is a retro game. The controls and movement mechanics are decidedly modern. Your protagonist has the ability to fluidly maneuver in the air, slide on walls, wall-jump at any time, and other such affordances. Compare this to a game like Castlevania where the jumping mechanics are a lot more rigid and unforgiving and wall-jumping is not possible. Even look at Super Metroid which does have wall-jumping but makes the action itself heavily reliant on timing and precise inputs. Modern games in general tend to heavily de-emphasize the demand for strict timing and input precision from the player. For an example of a proper retro game, created in the modern era but with the control difficulty of old NES games, look no further than La-Mulana [1]. Few people have played it and even fewer have finished the game but it's an extremely rewarding experience when you do. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La-Mulana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La-Mulana